Something I don't understand about applications of below 40hp tractors

[dwm1026]

The fundamental importance of TRACTOR WEIGHT eludes many tractor shoppers. Tractor capability is more closely correlated to tractor weight than any other single (1) specification.

The compact tractor era functionally began when Henry Ford licensed Harry Ferguson's tractor and Three Point Hitch design in 1939. The tractor industry uniformly adopted the Three Point Hitch after 1955, when Ferguson's patents began to expire and his tractor and Three Point Hitch design were available to industry participants besides Ford open source.

There were tractors before the Ford 9N, including earlier Fords. However, less efficient, pre-TPH tractors did not clearly outperform draft animals and not many pre-TPH tractors were sold.

Ford's first Ferguson TPH tractor:

Ford 9N​

1939 - 1942

N Series

Utility tractor

Ford 9N Power
Drawbar (claimed):	12.68 hp 9.5 kW
Belt (claimed):	20.29 hp 15.1 kW
Plows:	2 (14-inch)
Drawbar (tested):	16.31 hp 12.2 kW
Engine (net):	23.56 hp 17.6 kW

Ford 9N Weight
Shipping:	2140 lbs 970 kg
Operating:	2900 lbs 1315 kg
Ballasted:	3375 lbs 1530 kg

Mechanical
Chassis:	2WD
Steering:	manual
Cab:	Open operator station
Transmission:	3-speed

Lots of grain threshers, well pumps and (laundry) washing machines ran off Ford 9N PTOs. Ford tractors often preceded grid electrical power on the farm by years.

Horses and mules continued to work USA farms through the 1950s.

Still have a 1939 - 9N sitting out back,

 

[straggler]

The fundamental importance of TRACTOR WEIGHT eludes many tractor shoppers. Tractor capability is more closely correlated to tractor weight than any other single (1) specification.

The compact tractor era functionally began when Henry Ford licensed Harry Ferguson's tractor and Three Point Hitch design in 1939. The tractor industry uniformly adopted the Three Point Hitch after 1955, when Ferguson's patents began to expire and his tractor and Three Point Hitch design were available to industry participants besides Ford open source.

There were tractors before the Ford 9N, including earlier Fords. However, less efficient, pre-TPH tractors did not clearly outperform draft animals and not many pre-TPH tractors were sold.

Ford's first Ferguson TPH tractor:

Ford 9N​

1939 - 1942

N Series

Utility tractor

Ford 9N Power
Drawbar (claimed):	12.68 hp 9.5 kW
Belt (claimed):	20.29 hp 15.1 kW
Plows:	2 (14-inch)
Drawbar (tested):	16.31 hp 12.2 kW
Engine (net):	23.56 hp 17.6 kW

Ford 9N Weight
Shipping:	2140 lbs 970 kg
Operating:	2900 lbs 1315 kg
Ballasted:	3375 lbs 1530 kg

Mechanical
Chassis:	2WD
Steering:	manual
Cab:	Open operator station
Transmission:	3-speed

Lots of grain threshers, well pumps and (laundry) washing machines ran off Ford 9N PTOs. Ford tractors often preceded grid electrical power on the farm by years.

Horses and mules continued to work USA farms through the 1950s.

Thank You for the interesting History lesson!

"While Ferguson may have been willing to take initial losses on his tractor and equipment sales in the name of solving world hunger, his idealistic nature blinded him to the fact that he was the only one who was. As he dropped his own prices to economically unsustainable amounts, sellers pocketed the difference rather than passing on the savings to consumers, fatally wounding Ferguson’s bottom line in business and puncturing another big hole in his faith in humanity."

Harry Ferguson and the Three-Point Hitch - Mecum …

Well Worth the read. Sad Commentary. On 'Us'. He'll be one of the first when Awakened, i would think.

Too inherently lazy to check the original patent date(s) and the duration of patents back then. or too "Do the math". Even barefoot as i type.

Seems like CONgress 'extended' the patent on Viagra®. Twice.

Small wonder, hard as things were on people back then.

 

[Jac65]

I read you don't plough with any tractor under 40hp. At least maybe not on a new unworked field. Don't know if that's right, but it is what I have been reading on more than one site.

If you don't have a front loader or a lawn cutting pull behind implement, what do you use them for? For example, I found a good price on a Kubota B6000e. It is only the tractor. I can only cut the grass with it?

Are all the old tractors over 40hp?

Edit:. I read the Kubota was 10.5 hp. My jd L110 is 17.5, but no pto. I don't know what I'd do with the Kubota

Pretty sure you can plow with less than 40 HP
Just have to use the right equipment and set your expectations accordingly.

 

[I Piddle]

The fundamental importance of TRACTOR WEIGHT eludes many tractor shoppers. Tractor capability is more closely correlated to tractor weight than any other single (1) specification.

The compact tractor era functionally began when Henry Ford licensed Harry Ferguson's tractor and Three Point Hitch design in 1939. The tractor industry uniformly adopted the Three Point Hitch after 1955, when Ferguson's patents began to expire and his tractor and Three Point Hitch design were available to industry participants besides Ford open source.

There were tractors before the Ford 9N, including earlier Fords. However, less efficient, pre-TPH tractors did not clearly outperform draft animals and not many pre-TPH tractors were sold.

Ford's first Ferguson TPH tractor:

Ford 9N​

1939 - 1942

N Series

Utility tractor

Ford 9N Power
Drawbar (claimed):	12.68 hp 9.5 kW
Belt (claimed):	20.29 hp 15.1 kW
Plows:	2 (14-inch)
Drawbar (tested):	16.31 hp 12.2 kW
Engine (net):	23.56 hp 17.6 kW

Ford 9N Weight
Shipping:	2140 lbs 970 kg
Operating:	2900 lbs 1315 kg
Ballasted:	3375 lbs 1530 kg

Mechanical
Chassis:	2WD
Steering:	manual
Cab:	Open operator station
Transmission:	3-speed

Lots of grain threshers, well pumps and (laundry) washing machines ran off Ford 9N PTOs. Ford tractors often preceded grid electrical power on the farm by years.

Horses and mules continued to work USA farms through the 1950s.

Yeah, the 8N was the first tractor we got. Great tractor but you had to respect using it in the hills of Western Maryland. We pulled a baler and two bottom plows. Had to be an astute operator to pull and hold back a baler on these hills. Only 24 hp but the front end would stand in the air fairly quickly and flip over. I can remember two guys that were killed when their tractor flip back on them in the 1960s. It was a very common occurrence. I would think more people got killed on those tractors than any other. We always liked the tractor but gave it respect.

 

[Learning2Tractor]

I plowed my big garden along the creek in 2000 or so with a 12 hp Gravely using a rotary plow.

I'll bet most MCUTs could pull a single bottom plow. Too bad they don't make a rotary plow for any of them. Even a 1500 BX could probably plow with a rotary plow.

A friend's JD M was 18 hp gasoline. He gave me the soil ripper from it, which I converted to 3ph with his help doing the welding, per my design. I plowed the big garden again with it in 2004 using the soil ripper and bought 2 big discs that I put onto the tool bar and removed the cultivator tines. Made raised rows with the 2 big opposed discs using my 18.5 hp JD 4010. The JD with 4wd could do the work of the 2wd M: 4wd vs. weight.

I do have a L110 but I don't see that plowing much .

 

[sandytrail]

I grew up using a Farmall Model C, 23 HP, to pull a 2 bottom plow, 2 row cultivators, planters and anything else that needed being done. Also used a Ford 8N, 27HP, and pulled a 2 bottom plow in dry soil. As someone already mentioned, you either need a standard gear transmission for soil engagement activities or more than 50 HP to run your hydraulic gear train.

 

[WVH1977]

I have about an acre where lots of trees were cut down so I'm sure there are roots. Maybe as long as I don't get too close to the stump it's ok.

10hp was enough for you?

Are the stumps visible and how big are they? When you say lots of trees, do you mean every 10 feet or every 50 feet? You might need bigger equipment to rip out/ dig up existing stumps and roots, then use the tractor for plowing/upkeep.

I see a lot of Ford 1100 and 1210, etc. for sale around my area for 4 to 5 grand in good condition. They are 4-wheel drive and should do everything you want to on that acre for gardening/general purpose upkeep.

 

[Surshot]

Maybe you big tractor guys need to work 50 acres with an N Ford and live with it for 40 years.
When your option is a mule, you are dad gum thankful for the Ford and you just take smaller bites.
I read this stuff and think, you folks really need to work a pine tree farm, very limited space, limited tractor size due to row spacing, with a need for power to lift downed trees. You learn all about the one bite at a time theory of farming.

 

[npalen]

Maybe you big tractor guys need to work 50 acres with an N Ford and live with it for 40 years.
When your option is a mule, you are dad gum thankful for the Ford and you just take smaller bites.
I read this stuff and think, you folks really need to work a pine tree farm, very limited space, limited tractor size due to row spacing, with a need for power to lift downed trees. You learn all about the one bite at a time theory of farming.

Yes, most of us are spoiled rotten. A 30HP FWA diesel hydrostat utility tractor would have been the cat's meow on the farm back in the fifties and with a FEL to boot!

 

[Sawyer Rob]

The whole problem with this thread is, you are all comparing, all the different tractors by HP!

The old tractors are built more than twice tougher than the compacts you guys are comparing them too!

SR

 

[deserteagle71]

About 1950. My Dad plowing with only TWO horsepower!

 

[DK35vince]

The whole problem with this thread is, you are all comparing, all the different tractors by HP!

The old tractors are built more than twice tougher than the compacts you guys are comparing them too!

SR

Really ?
Here is an example of what I'm talking about
According to tractor data
Ford 8n, 30hp, 27 pto hp = 2410-2717 lbs
Modern Kubota l2501, 25hp, 20.5 pto hp = 2425-2623lbs
Your saying these older under 40hp tractors were twice tougher than modern compacts yet they weigh about the same, how can that be ??

TractorData.com Ford 8N tractor information

www.tractordata.com

TractorData.com Kubota L2501 tractor information

www.tractordata.com

 

[4570Man]

The whole problem with this thread is, you are all comparing, all the different tractors by HP!

The old tractors are built more than twice tougher than the compacts you guys are comparing them too!

SR

Somewhere between 100 and 150 hp. My 80 hp skid steer can’t come even close to hanging with it.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Really ?
Here is an example of what I'm talking about
According to tractor data
Ford 8n, 30hp, 27 pto hp = 2410-2717 lbs
Modern Kubota l2501, 25hp, 20.5 pto hp = 2425-2623lbs
Your saying these older under 40hp tractors were twice tougher than modern compacts yet they weigh about the same, how can that be ??

That's exactly what I'm saying...

I already know that one of my yuppie tinkertoy tractors won't hold up to working at the level of something like an old Farmall H!

Only someone's "pampered poche" of today, will still be around 50 years from now. UNLESS it's already been melted down and made into something else!

SR

 

[Jstpssng]

Thank You for the interesting History lesson!

"While Ferguson may have been willing to take initial losses on his tractor and equipment sales in the name of solving world hunger, his idealistic nature blinded him to the fact that he was the only one who was. As he dropped his own prices to economically unsustainable amounts, sellers pocketed the difference rather than passing on the savings to consumers, fatally wounding Ferguson’s bottom line in business and puncturing another big hole in his faith in humanity."

Harry Ferguson and the Three-Point Hitch - Mecum …

Well Worth the read. Sad Commentary. On 'Us'. He'll be one of the first when Awakened, i would think.

Too inherently lazy to check the original patent date(s) and the duration of patents back then. or too "Do the math". Even barefoot as i type.

Seems like CONgress 'extended' the patent on Viagra®. Twice.

Small wonder, hard as things were on people back then.

Interesting first post.

Welcome to TBN!

 

[Jstpssng]

Are the stumps visible and how big are they? When you say lots of trees, do you mean every 10 feet or every 50 feet? You might need bigger equipment to rip out/ dig up existing stumps and roots, then use the tractor for plowing/upkeep.

I see a lot of Ford 1100 and 1210, etc. for sale around my area for 4 to 5 grand in good condition. They are 4-wheel drive and should do everything you want to on that acre for gardening/general purpose upkeep.

I've read every post, and this is the best/most logical I've seen. Clearing the land should be a one-shot deal. I piddled on mine for 7 years before somebody wanted to cut the woodlot behind me and asked if they could put a road up into my field. They hauled in around 100 yards of gravel screenings for a road and the only thing I asked was that they clear the trees off the old 2 acre field which it went through.
I then had them cut 2 more acres... in return they came in with an excavator and in 2 days converted a field of stumps into something I can work with.

If the operator knows what he's doing he should be able to do about an acre a day. You can have him bury the stumps but instead I had them piled up. Now the stumps have rotted down and I'm in the process of reclaiming the soil.

 

[beenthere]

I read you don't plough with any tractor under 40hp. At least maybe not on a new unworked field. Don't know if that's right, but it is what I have been reading on more than one site.

If you don't have a front loader or a lawn cutting pull behind implement, what do you use them for? For example, I found a good price on a Kubota B6000e. It is only the tractor. I can only cut the grass with it?

Are all the old tractors over 40hp?

Edit:. I read the Kubota was 10.5 hp. My jd L110 is 17.5, but no pto. I don't know what I'd do with the Kubota.

Couldn't be further from the truth.
Only if you qualify the variables/specs on those conditions that might make that statement true.

 

[Learning2Tractor]

Couldn't be further from the truth.
Only if you qualify the variables/specs on those conditions that might make that statement true.

After reading everyone's response, maybe how much should a tractor weigh might be better for unplowed land.

 

[Root Cause]

After reading everyone's response, maybe how much should a tractor weigh might be better for unplowed land.

Nailed it. Most everyone worries about HP when starting out (me included) when weight should be the first consideration. When working raw land, clearance or lack of it can stop you no matter the HP or weight. Once you think through it, it makes all the sense in the world.

 

[mo1]

Nailed it. Most everyone worries about HP when starting out (me included) when weight should be the first consideration. When working raw land, clearance or lack of it can stop you no matter the HP or weight. Once you think through it, it makes all the sense in the world.

Having appropriate tires helps a lot too, plowing with ag tires is a lot easier than with turf tires.