"Space Program Improves Life on Earth"

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texbaylea

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I thought I would pass on the following article with the title I quoted. I get tired of people bashing NASA without understanding what we all gain from it.

Space Benefits

Please realize that the things mentioned are only part of what NASA has contributed to our lives.

Vernon
NASA Retired
 
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So are you saying that if we disagree with the amount of money spent by NASA we are "without understanding"? I'm just curious, as that seems implicit in your remarks.
 
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I don't pay any taxes to help fund NASA - at least I don't think I do.
Maybe that helps me to maintain an open mind on the issue.

However we're also told that motor racing improves our cars - I don't buy it.

Tractors and trucks have been refined, economy and power improved without the help of racing.

In the current climate I really think we need to question some of our pursuits,
motor racing among them.

I dare say I'll be howled down but I think I'm strong enough to take it!
 
/ "Space Program Improves Life on Earth"
  • Thread Starter
#4  
LMTC said:
So are you saying that if we disagree with the amount of money spent by NASA we are "without understanding"? I'm just curious, as that seems implicit in your remarks.

You are broadening the scope of my comment. The article brought out things I was not aware of and that there is a large return on investment from the NASA program. The NASA budget has not been "wasted on space" but has been spent here at home.

I do not know if you smoke but I doubt that your "share" of the NASA budget amounts to more than a few packs of cigarettes.


Vernon
NASA retired
 
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texbaylea said:
You are broadening the scope of my comment. The article brought out things I was not aware of and that there is a large return on investment from the NASA program. The NASA budget has not been "wasted on space" but has been spent here at home.

I do not know if you smoke but I doubt that your "share" of the NASA budget amounts to more than a few packs of cigarettes.


Vernon
NASA retired
I didn't broaden the scope of anything. I asked a very direct question...are you saying? I did comment that to me it seemed implicit that you were saying that, and that is why I asked for clarification. My "share" is immaterial, and it is not the question I asked. I will try restate more clearly---when you say you "get tired of people bashing NASA without understanding what we all gain from it" are you also saying that you believe that all those who disagree with the NASA program(s) are "without understanding"? In either case could you point out some specific examples of people (or sites) that "bash" NASA without understanding?

And what does it matter that my "share" is small (at least as you put it)? Does that diminish my right to have an opinion about where my tax dollars are spent? Is your "share" greater, thus giving your opinion more standing?

You began this thread by making a demeaning comment about people who might disapprove of NASA spending. Might have been much better to simply say "Hey, look at this stuff that came out of the NASA programs. I wasn't aware of all of this". Why the need to make clear implication that those who disagree just don't understand?
 
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I like Tang.

mark
 
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Still using the Corelle dinnerware we got as wedding presents in 1973.

I don't think we've ever chipped one.

(Corelle was derived from the shuttle belly tiles).
 
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texbaylea said:
I thought I would pass on the following article with the title I quoted. I get tired of people bashing NASA without understanding what we all gain from it.

Space Benefits

Please realize that the things mentioned are only part of what NASA has contributed to our lives.
California said:
Still using the Corelle dinnerware we got as wedding presents in 1973.

I don't think we've ever chipped one.

(Corelle was derived from the shuttle belly tiles).
Government (taxpayer) funded research and development for consumer products?
If the space program is so beneficial in all of the areas mentioned, maybe these industries should be funding it. Just a thought. :eek:
 
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AndyM said:
Government (taxpayer) funded research and development for consumer products?
If the space program is so beneficial in all of the areas mentioned, maybe these industries should be funding it. Just a thought. :eek:
I think it went more like this: NASA contracted Corning to invent heat shield tiles, with a provision that Corning could subsequently use the technology as it wished. A lot of government-funded research is like that. The contractors include their expected future benefits, in calculating what to charge the government for the initial contract. I think it would be pointless for government to spend all that money then lock up future development rights as exclusive government property, when they can't anticipate what future applications might evolve.

If you priced out the space program narrowly in terms of the resale price of moon dust brought back or something like that, of course it wouldn't make economic sense. Add indirect benefits such as the widespread use of microprocessors today, or the international prestige gained by being first in anything major, and you have a far wider benefits base to compare cost against. I'm old enough to remember the sudden fear that we had been overtaken, when Russia got Sputnik in earth orbit before we had the capability to orbit anything. That had a major influence on space spending. Right or wrong, we've spent a lot of money to maintain a lead ever since.

But then everybody knows that the moon landings were done indoors on a sound stage in Hollywood. :)
 
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mjarrels said:
I like Tang.

mark

I used to when I was a kid, but really, when you think about it, it isn't so good. :p

California said:
Still using the Corelle dinnerware we got as wedding presents in 1973.

I don't think we've ever chipped one.

(Corelle was derived from the shuttle belly tiles).

I took one of my wife's corelle plates out of the microwave and set it in the sink because I burned my hand. I then turned on the cold water to stick my hand under it and the water hit the plate. The plate exploded into a bazillion bits of sharp shards. Scary stuff. :eek:

texbaylea said:
I thought I would pass on the following article with the title I quoted. I get tired of people bashing NASA without understanding what we all gain from it....
While I do find lots of good things that have come out of the space program, I also find lots of scientific research funded by tax dollars that is sometimes just plain nuts. As a person that is reasonably responsible with my own money, I can't stand to see money spent unwisely by anyone, be it an individual, company or governmet agency. Of course, my version of "unwisely" may not be the same as another's.;)
 
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I support NASA 100%. The NASA Budget is less than 1% of the federal government budget, which I think is a shame that it's that low. There's much more spin-off technology from the space program in our daily lives than many people realize. I'd much rather see my tax dollars go to the space program than a lot of the other bogus crap that the gov spends money on, like the NEA, et al. But, that's bordering on politics, and we don't want to get this thread removed.

I spent the day at KSC today (Saturday) by the way. :cool: :D

Oh, and, like it or not, Tang was not a NASA invention...:eek:
 

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xlr82v2 said:
I support NASA 100%. The NASA Budget is less than 1% of the federal government budget, which I think is a shame that it's that low.

NASA could do twice is much if it didn't waste so much money. I am a NASA employee of 18 years. The waste I am tralking about is not $400 hammers and such. It is BS expenditures such as travel and BS training and conferences. I have seen people promoted to a management position and the first thing they do is to submit a facilities work request to have their office remodeled. At the Marshall Space Flight Center we actually have a document that calls out how much crown molding an employee can have based on their pay grade; stricly for GS15s and SES's. A couple of years ago a lady moved into her new office and didn't like where the door was and had it moved over 12"! That does nothing to help us return to the moon. NASA has done a lot of good in the past, be we are slowing down and getting bogged down by our own waste and foolishness.
 
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Tractors4u said:
we are slowing down and getting bogged down by our own waste and foolishness.

That's not a NASA problem. That's a problem with America as a whole. NASA is just a symptom of a much larger problem and I don't think there is anything we can do to change the course of this country. Inertia is one mighty force. Can you say Roman Empire?
 
/ "Space Program Improves Life on Earth"
  • Thread Starter
#14  
Tractors4u said:
NASA could do twice is much if it didn't waste so much money. I am a NASA employee of 18 years. The waste I am tralking about is not $400 hammers and such. It is BS expenditures such as travel and BS training and conferences. I have seen people promoted to a management position and the first thing they do is to submit a facilities work request to have their office remodeled. At the Marshall Space Flight Center we actually have a document that calls out how much crown molding an employee can have based on their pay grade; stricly for GS15s and SES's. A couple of years ago a lady moved into her new office and didn't like where the door was and had it moved over 12"! That does nothing to help us return to the moon. NASA has done a lot of good in the past, be we are slowing down and getting bogged down by our own waste and foolishness.

Brent

That is indicative of a growth of a bureaucratic management. In the earlier days people were promoted because of technical ability but it is growing more political. This, unfortunately, is a fact of life in all government agencies. I wish there was a solution but I don't know of one.

I have to hope that if NASA can develop a clear mission with the support of the nation its employees will be too busy to play these silly games. How can you manage a 20 year program when the political leadership can change your direction every four years?

I firmly feel that unless this nation can keep a goal beyond our own everyday comfort and ease, we will be come second rate. We are rapidly moving that way. I also believe that our media that is always playing "ain't it awful" and "gotcha" to increase their audience and to sell advertising, is speeding us that way.

Vernon
 
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I would rather see my tax money go to NASA than alot of other things. All you have to do is check out a launch at the "Cape" and you'll know why. When we were leading the way with the Apollo program there was alot of national pride, we were respected and admired by most of the world. I like it.

John
 
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Iron Horse said:
Now NASA is talking about building a moon base (WHY)

The Orion landers will not explore various parts of the moon. They will all go to the south pole of Luna (the actual name of our moon). That is where the highest concentration of Helium3 is located. It is also where there is some frozen water just beneath the surface.

Helium3 is a light isotope of Helium. Regular Helium has an atomic weight of 4 a.m.u. Helium3 has an a.m.u. of 3; one less neutron than regular Helium. In a nuclear fusion reactor, Helium3 would produce tremendous energy with virtually no radioactive waste. There is no Helium3 on Earth. It is a by product of the fusion of Hydrogen in the sun. It is ejected from the sun out into space. The Earth's electro-magnetic field deflects the stuff from Earth, but it does coat the surface of Luna.

The south pole of Luna is where the highest concentration of Helium3 is located; it is where the small amount of water is located; it is where there is continual sunshine. For these reasons, Luna's south pole is where a permanent base will be constructed.

We have not stated that the harvesting energy resources is our reason for going back to Luna. China has. They hope to beat us to Luna's south pole and claim it. They have openly stated that the purpose of their lunar program is to go to the south pole and harvest Helium3.

Is harvesting Helium3 practical, or even possible? A hundred years ago, how many would have said that drilling for oil beneath the arctic ice cap was possible? Or more unimaginable, who would have believed that you could dig a material out of the desert, separate isotopes in a centrafuge, and them produce a material that could make electricity and bombs powerful enough to destroy the world?

It is ironic that the first race to the moon served as vicarious metaphorical substitute for war with our former Communist enemy, the Soviet Union; yet now the second race to the moon may serve as the impetus for real war with our rising Communist nemesis, the People's Republic of China.

BTW, this is not a joke, know what you call someone who spends all his time standing outside at night staring at the moon and dreaming about what is out there among the stars? A lunatic. At least that's what those who said that space travel could never happen called the ones they thought were just dreamers.

Long ago, electricity was considered by most who had heard of it as nothing more than the frivolous pursuit of highfalutin' intellectuals. In 1831, the prime minister of Great Britian sarcastically asked Michael Faraday what use his experiments in electricity were. Faraday shrewdly replied that he really didn't know for sure what practical use might come of the phenomenon, but, "I'm sure that one day you'll be able to tax it." Twenty years after Faraday's statement, it took Californians 6 months to get a message to the east coast. Thirty years after Faraday's statement, it took 1/60 of a second for each dot and dash of Morse Code to telegraph from California to the east coast.

Less than 200 years later, it is difficult to envision the survival of the modern world if electricity suddenly ceased to exist. I think we are starting to get a glimpse of what the world might be like without petroleum, however, and it is a scary thought.

Electricity is the future of energy; Helium3 is likely the source of that electricity. And the moon is the source of that Helium3. Perhaps NASA and the politicians need to do a better job of articulating the very practical rationale for going back to Luna. On the other hand, maybe they are not saying much because they do not want to stir up tension with China and the rest of the world.

Congress wanted to impeach Jefferson for the Louisiana Purchase. Even Jefferson didn't know what he'd bought. Lewis and Clark had to find out. Mexico was furious at the incursion into their claimed territory and sent a military unit which failed to intercept them. Zebulon Pike and others were intercepted and turned back. From that point on, the U.S. government had to covertly send Jedediah Smith and others to scout the territory. Smith told the Mexicans who arrested him that he was just a fur trapper trying to eek out a living trapping beaver. While this was partly true, he was secretly looking for topography that could accommodate a wagon road to facilitate the future settlement of the west and the fulfillment of Manifest Destiny. They didn't have an inkling his discoveries and the maps soon provided by John Freemont would also enable an unimaginable form of transportation in the form of the transcontinental railroad. Rather than tell China that that Helium3 is ours, we can just say we are untertaking peaceful scientific exploration. Anybody now want to give all that land back to Mexico? The Alaskan wasteland was called "Seward's Folly". Anyone want to give all that gold and oil back to the Russians? Mining minerals from the moon may seem absurdly difficult to some. Jefferson thought it would take 100 generations for Americans to fill up the continent. But the unforseen railroad burst upon the scene and it only took four. In the same manner, new forms of space travel may easily make the exploitation of Luna's minerals a reality.

Those with no vision accomplish little. The day will come, perhaps 200 years in the future, when those who said going to the moon was foolish will be looked upon as the ones who were lunatics.
 
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My ancestor Richard Trevithick was the father of the industrial revolution . He invented the first high pressure steam engine , not long after he fitted a set of wheels and a drive mechanism which became the first motor lorry(not automobile) . After his machine was forced off the roads because of the damage the cast iron wheels were doing to the cobble stone , he fitted flanged wheels and ran it on the cast iron tracks that were used for mine trollies which then became the first rail locomotive . Watt told him he deserved hanging for bringing this dangerous contraption into the world . So i know of what you speak of in terms of doers and sayers but i cannot possibly imagine how they could mine the huge quantity of Helium3 that would be required by the ravenous world (at which time the population would be unimaginable) and economicaly ship it back to earth for consumption . I may sound short sighted but the thought of rocket powered tip trucks wizing back and forth seems a little hard to imagine . I firmly believe , they are just trying to justify their own exsistence .
 
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My grandma was born in 1896. She told me of seeing some things for the first time. Cars, electricity, phones, airplanes, indoor plumbing, radio, T.V., gas and electric heat, computers, hand held calculators, not to mention the advances in medicine.... you name it, she saw it in just her 98 years on earth. We will continue to see neat stuff in our lifetime. :)
 
 
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