Specs on a John S. Barnes Pump?

[Iplayfarmer]

I picked up a Jacobsen reel mower as a parts donor for a project I'll be working on. It's a Greens King IV.

The hydraulic pump has a tag on it that says "John S. Barnes Corp." The date on the pump is 9/84, and the serial number is 131347. I tried looking for some specs online and I didn't find anything. Does anyone know where to find specs for this pump?

It's a quadruple pump. There is one large line with its own input and then there are three additional lines with a common input. I was hoping to find some information about the displacement, recommended RPM, output, pressure, flow, etc.

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[MH49]

If I remember correctly, John S. Barnes was bought by Haldex corporation. If you can get a model code off of the pump, you may be able to cross it over with their current litrature. Hope this helps on your hunt.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

If I remember correctly, John S. Barnes was bought by Haldex corporation. If you can get a model code off of the pump, you may be able to cross it over with their current litrature. Hope this helps on your hunt.

That explains why whenever I do a web search on John S. Barnes I keep getting results for Haldex.

The numbers I posted are about all there is. This pump is interesting because I looks like it's sectional. There are four different outputs, and it looks like each comes from a separate unit. It's like a stack valve, but this one is a stack pump.

 

[MH49]

I would be willing to bet that it is the Haldex/Barnes 'W' series pumps. Check it out here W Series Pumps

 

[Iplayfarmer]

I would be willing to bet that it is the Haldex/Barnes 'W' series pumps. Check it out here W Series Pumps

Thanks for the link. I went there, but I don't think that's what this pump is. I attached some pictures below. Take a look and tell me what you think.

 

[Sherweld]

Jacobsen seems to be pretty tight with any information regarding stuff designed and built to their specs. I've tried several times to locate alternate sources to fix a variety of Jacobsen golf equipment when local Jake dealers were not very responsive, and further it seemed at times, that Jacobsen itself was even less helpful.

Bottom line is that I'm not sure you are going to learn too much unless you get connected with somebody inside the "family".

 

[MH49]

Here is something to try as a last ditch effort. If you pull the pump apart, you can measure the gears and determine the flow using the following formula:

GPM = ((Gear O.D.)^2 - (Gear I.D.)^2) x Gear Width x 4.1

This will give you the theor. flow @1800 rpm.

I think the Toro Tri-Plex mower used the same pump so you might want to attack it from that angle as well.

 

[J_J]

Thanks for the link. I went there, but I don't think that's what this pump is. I attached some pictures below. Take a look and tell me what you think.

Those pumps look like the ones used to power the hydraulic motors on greens cutting equipment. The hydraulic motors turn the reel mowers. I have seen them on Ebay.

Try the maintenance dept at golf courses.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

If you pull the pump apart, you can measure the gears and determine the flow...

How involved is pulling it apart? I'm a little hesitant. Are there many little parts inside of these pumps that I would risk not being able to put back together again?

The other thing I had thought of was filling the tank and putting a line off of each of the four outputs to four different containers. If I made a mark on the input drive and turned it a specific number of turns I could measure the resultant volume and calculate the volume per revolution. I could use that to determine the gmp flow at a given rpm.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

Those pumps look like the ones used to power the hydraulic motors on greens cutting equipment. The hydraulic motors turn the reel mowers. I have seen them on Ebay.

Try the maintenance dept at golf courses.

That's exactly what this pump is. I poached an old greens mower that a local scrap guy had picked up for other parts. I got the pump, both motors for the drive wheels, and a 5 spool gresen valve along with the chassis.

I'm planning to use the two motors to drive the separate sides of a tracked vehicle. I'm just trying to get some idea of what it will put out so that I don't end up taking off at 30 mph on the maiden voyage.

Your idea to talk to the golf course guys is not bad. I may go make a new friend on lunch today.

 

[betterbuilt]

Did you ever find out any more about that pump. I have one and haven't found anything yet. I'd appreciate any help you can give me. Thanks

 

[Iplayfarmer]

Did you ever find out any more about that pump. I have one and haven't found anything yet. I'd appreciate any help you can give me. Thanks

I never did find anything out. I haven't even started the project that I was going to do with it. I know it was hooked to a 16 hp Kohler engine and drives everything on the mower... wheels, reels, rams, and everything.

 

[betterbuilt]

Hey thanks for the effort. I was hoping to use mine on a log splitter but it may not be worth the hassle.

Your rover idea has me wondering if that's what I should build in the future. I have access to another of the greens mowers that's almost all there. I could rob the rest of the components from it.

Thanks BB

 

[J_J]

I general, a 16 HP engine can support an 8 GPM pump, at 3000 psi. What your pump looks like to me is the large pump drives the wheel motors, and the smaller piggyback pumps drive the reel mowers on the greens cutter. You could probably use it as a log splitter pump. You may be able to separate those extra pumps off and put a cover plate on the one pump.

If you were to use a 4 in bore with 2 in shaft, then you could expect about 18.5 ton of force from that engine and pump.

If you check around at some of the golf course maintenance facility, they might still have manuals and schematics on the mower.

 

[betterbuilt]

I have a 12hp Wisconsin I was gonna use. I'm not so sure what I'm gonna do. I thought the mower I got the pump from was 24 hp.

My Pto pump died last fall and I've been trying to figure out if I should buy a new PTO pump or use the parts I have laying around. I'm not sure I want to take this pump apart. I haven't done it before and I'd hate to ruin a perfectly good pump learning. Thanks I'll keep you posted if I find anymore out about the pump. BB

 

[Iplayfarmer]

I think for a log splitter you'd be better to get a single pump. You could loop the extra three pumps on this barnes, but it seems like the effort and risk would outweigh any savings.

I've wondered about pulling a motor off one of the mower reels and using it as a pump.

 

[StPat5837]

I have this same setup, was planning on using parts to build a log splitter also. I am planning on using a 4X24 cylinder from Surplus Sales, will using the large outlet pump,(used to drive the wheels on a Jacobsen mower) work or is buying a new two stage pump the way to go. I would think the 16hp Kohler would be plenty of power but not sure, this is my first attempt at this.
Any information or suggestions are welcome, I will post pictures of the pump and valves later.
Thanks, Patrick

 

[Iplayfarmer]

I have this same setup, was planning on using parts to build a log splitter also. I am planning on using a 4X24 cylinder from Surplus Sales, will using the large outlet pump,(used to drive the wheels on a Jacobsen mower) work or is buying a new two stage pump the way to go. I would think the 16hp Kohler would be plenty of power but not sure, this is my first attempt at this.
Any information or suggestions are welcome, I will post pictures of the pump and valves later.
Thanks, Patrick

Based on my experience, it would be better to get a two stage pump.

 

[betterbuilt]

Just to update this thread. I came across another project which happened to be a towable backhoe. I tried a different pump but that one needed more power then the 12hp Wisconsin could put out. I decided to try the Barnes pump. I took it apart and put the gears and the woodruff key out of the three unneeded sections. It works like a charm. I'm still surprised at how easy it was to pull the thing apart.

 

[TylerWayne96]

Not to bring up an old thread but J_J is indeed correct and I agree. I run a golf course maintenance shop and we have one dinosaur (by today's standards) Toro 5500D reel mower. I recently rebuilt the hydraulic transmission in that unit and it has a similar three section style gear pump hooked to the other side of it. The setup goes Kubota diesel, driveshaft from engine to top of hydraulic trans, hydraulic trans to front differential (almost like a Ford 9" center section) and then gear pump coupled to the opposite side of the top of the hydraulic trans. Toro is the same way with pumps and a lot of parts. I've ran into this multiple times. It will be stamped Haldex and only have a Toro part number stamped on it. Same thing with the hydraulic transmissions/hydrostats, it could be an Eaton, Sundstrand Sauer/Danfoss and it will only be labeled with a toro#. Best thing is to Google Toro service manuals which are actually very in depth and then use a place like SunSource for parts.