Stability control now mandatory

[crazyal]

So I knew traction control was going to be mandatory in 2012 but it looks like stability control is also going to be included on every vehicle. My Subaru has traction control (maybe stability too) and I find when it comes on it robs too much power in most conditions. Usually though it happens at a time when I can easily switch it off.

But I'm not sure if I would want a system that thinks my truck is leaning too much or cornering too hard and takes control of the brake and throttle from me. What will happen if you're towing a trailer? I've had trailers start to fish tail and have used the throttle and trailer brakes to get control over it, will a computer trying to do what it wants to do (and possibly fighting the driver) help or make it worse?

This is a little old but kind of gives an idea as to what stability control is. Of course they are more interested in being able to lift a truck and how the system will make it harder.

Will Mandatory Stability Control Roll Over the Pickup Truck Aftermarket? - PickupTrucks.com News

So what do others think?

 

[Diamondpilot]

I have had the opportunity to tow with a new Ford with it. I love it. Just like anti lock brakes its a step in the right direction.

If you hate power brakes, window, locks, steering, heated seats, cruise control, anti lock brakes, or any other feature that makes new cars and trucks better you will probably not like it. I for one love it.

Chris

 

[The Haymaker]

Yeah, heaven forbid if we actually teach people how to drive. No thank you, I'd rather be in control of my vehicle.

 

[JDgreen227]

Mandatory stability control sounds like a great idea....for the incompetent, reckless morons who think just because their truck has AWD or 4WD they are magically immune to the laws of friction, gravity, and inertia.

I have driven since 1968, inclusive of 31 years of professional driving with commercial straight trucks weighing up to 25 tons gross weight, and I have never been stuck, gone off road, nor been cited for an at-fault accident during all that time.

My '04 Lesabre has a bad steering position sensor, which at times disables the stability control. Why should I, a careful, conservative driver, have to pay $400 to replace the sensor that controls stability when odds are, I will never need to use that feature?

Automakers load up their vehicles up with too much useless electronic crap that does little for most drivers except raise the cost of cars and trucks and make them more repair prone.

 

[BobRip]

I wonder if people complained when they started putting brakes on the front wheels instead of just the rear or when they went to hydraulic brakes. Did a lot of people say I don't need front brakes I am a careful driver.

 

[The Haymaker]

I wonder if people complained when they started putting brakes on the front wheels instead of just the rear or when they went to hydraulic brakes. Did a lot of people say I don't need front brakes I am a careful driver.

Can't see the relation here, explain what it has to do with the dumbing down of the American driver?

 

[Grateful11]

We're protecting ourselves to death. We never put locks on cabinet doors with our boys, we didn't put everything out of reach. They knew what no meant. We did put the little plugs in the empty outlet holes.

When our oldest started driving my wife took him to seldom used paved road and showed him what do to if dropped off the edge of pavement and then made him do it, over correction seems to get more kids into headon accidents than about anything around here. Now that we've lost one son, to sudden cardiac arrest at 21 we find ourselves trying to over protect our son that's still with us and we know that wrong but losing one is nearly unbearable, losing the other, well I'm not sure what I would do.

I learned to drive with 3 speed on the column, I wonder how many kids could handle that today?

 

[Grateful11]

Can't see the relation here, explain what it has to do with the dumbing down of the American driver?

You don't have to dumb them down, most are dumb enough already ;-)

 

[crazyal]

Before anti-lock brakes came out I remember watching a show showcasing new tech for cars. They drove around a track showing just how much better they are. From that point on I was sold, I wanted them. When I got my first car that had them, a 90 Toyota Celica All-trac Turbo I was grinning from ear to ear.

One day I was going down a dirt road that had just been graded with the Celica. Not wanting to have stones flying up from the tires I wasn't going all that fast. The road ended at a Tee with another road with a little bit of a dip just before it. Because the last few hundred yards were up hill you really didn't need to push hard on the brakes. As I came up to the intersection at about 20mph the anti-locks kicked on and did nothing. If I hadn't been going as slow as I was I would have been in the ditch on the far side of the intersection. After that I found that anti-lock brakes are equally as bad in snow (where you need to skid the tire to make a pile of snow in front of the wheel).

My point is I found out that most advances also come with drawbacks. I'm not sure if I want to find out the hard way that stability control works just fine for the little lady who drove a little too fast into a corner with her SUV but are deadly when you're pulling a load and a gust of wind gives your trailer enough of a sideways push that it sets off the computer.

While you can turn off the traction control in my Subaru when you do a bright yellow light comes on in the middle of the dash. You can't turn off anti-lock brakes (you use to be able to pull the fuse) since it's computer is tied into the main computer. Who knows if in the future you'll be able to turn off any of this mandated stuff.

I wonder how those Toyota owners felt about no longer having a throttle cable connecting the gas pedal to the throttle body?

 

[BobRip]

Can't see the relation here, explain what it has to do with the dumbing down of the American driver?

Every safety improvement removes skill requirements. Many of them happened so long ago that you accept them as the norm and don't realize that they are government mandated. Front brakes, side view mirrors, seat belts, double hood latches and many others.

 

[BobRip]

Before anti-lock brakes came out I remember watching a show showcasing new tech for cars. They drove around a track showing just how much better they are. From that point on I was sold, I wanted them. When I got my first car that had them, a 90 Toyota Celica All-trac Turbo I was grinning from ear to ear.

One day I was going down a dirt road that had just been graded with the Celica. Not wanting to have stones flying up from the tires I wasn't going all that fast. The road ended at a Tee with another road with a little bit of a dip just before it. Because the last few hundred yards were up hill you really didn't need to push hard on the brakes. As I came up to the intersection at about 20mph the anti-locks kicked on and did nothing. If I hadn't been going as slow as I was I would have been in the ditch on the far side of the intersection. After that I found that anti-lock brakes are equally as bad in snow (where you need to skid the tire to make a pile of snow in front of the wheel).

My point is I found out that most advances also come with drawbacks. I'm not sure if I want to find out the hard way that stability control works just fine for the little lady who drove a little too fast into a corner with her SUV but are deadly when you're pulling a load and a gust of wind gives your trailer enough of a sideways push that it sets off the computer.

While you can turn off the traction control in my Subaru when you do a bright yellow light comes on in the middle of the dash. You can't turn off anti-lock brakes (you use to be able to pull the fuse) since it's computer is tied into the main computer. Who knows if in the future you'll be able to turn off any of this mandated stuff.

I wonder how those Toyota owners felt about no longer having a throttle cable connecting the gas pedal to the throttle body?

Most cars are going to the electronic throttle control.

 

[DK35vince]

Just like anti lock brakes its a step in the right direction.

Thats your opinion.
I personally never liked anti lock brakes. I prefer to have my own control of the brakes.
Stability control - You can have it. I certainly don't want it.

 

[Mounted Madness]

Interesting points of view.

Categorizing seatbelts as being the same as electronic stability control gives me a chuckle. With the introduction of seatbelts in the mid-60's, with subsequent mandatory use being legislated in most jurisdictions through the 80's and onwards, with corresponding increase in usage, has resulted in a considerable reduction in motor vehicle collision injuries.

The majority of collisions are due to 'pilot error'. In my experience investigating collisions, the majority are due to the operator abdicating, or giving up control of the vehicle - simply because they didn't know what to do next, at the time when control was lost. They are overwhelmed - they panic.

ABS, stability control, traction control - all of these things stretch out the time opportunity to make the correct decision to avoid a collision.

From my perspective, an experienced driver prefers to be in charge of the vehicle, but even experienced drivers can panic. As is too often the case, and using the terminology used earlier, there is a dumbing down of drivers overall. Those high priced electronics in dumbed down vehicles may well prove valuable to the rest of us.

It won't be too many years before there will be a mandatory requirement to have a vehicle 'link' to an automated vehicle control system on major, highly travelled roadways, at least during rush hours.

 

[Renze]

What will happen if you're towing a trailer? I've had trailers start to fish tail and have used the throttle and trailer brakes to get control over it, will a computer trying to do what it wants to do (and possibly fighting the driver) help or make it worse?

In a previous job i worked at trailer builder who also converted the Mercedes Sprinter with air brakes and 5th wheel. Mercedes only allowed installation of a 5th wheel when the ESP was cancelled because it is designed for single vehicles and with standard mid-axle tag trailers, and would make matters worse with 5th wheel trailers. they would simply not give the necessary papers to tag the vehicle as "tractor trailer" when it has ESP.

 

[Redneck in training]

Most cars are going to the electronic throttle control.

Even Harley has it.

 

[Redneck in training]

I rented Toyota Prado just recently . It has stability control that was tested several times while driving too fast at night on a gravel roads in Western Australia. Have to admit I was impressed how it worked. The cars starts beeping loudly and does something with throttle and breaks to keep the car going in direction you point the steering into. I also think that the ABS has some algorithm to work well while braking on gravel. The stabilty and traction control has a switch to turn it off. The ABS doesn't.

 

[Ken45101]

I think crazyal misunderstands ABS braking. It will not stop you significantly faster however, you still have steering control when ABS kicks in, which you do not have when your brakes lock up without it.

Stability control? We have a 2006 Jeep Grand Cherokee with it and, to be honest, I've never understood what it is. AFAIK, with 76,000 miles on it, it's never activated.

I too am concerned about all of the expensive electronic modules they are putting on modern cars. Prior to the Jeep, we had a Chevy Blazer. A bad fuel pump cost $700 (discounted parts alone). We also suspected that the ABS module wasn't working right and that was $1300 parts alone to replace that. Between the two of them, I could have replaced an engine or tranny, which were in perfect shape.

Ken

 

[Patches]

Well, I learned to drive in a '36 Pontiac with three on the floor;been driving in ice, mud and snow since 1955 and never needed any of the "nannies" these new vehicles have. My Tundra is a pain to drive with the "nannies" on; turn everything off I can but the ABS is untouchable. If you're driving down the road texting, on your cell phone or reading your GPS, I guess you need all the help you can get :confused2:

 

[slowzuki]

Modern abs systems know to lock up the tires at low speeds on gravel and snow, it was just frustrating in the early systems that would let you roll on a skim of sand or snow.

We still don't have abs on our car, a 2003 (is it mandatory in the US?) but we have it in the truck (2001). I sure appreciate it with the truck as the load varies so much.

I'm not a big fan of stability control or traction control but I know its where the market is going. Front wheel drive, designed understeer, etc all the north american way.

 

[schmism]

As the keep adding features to a car, that are electronically controlled, my faith in the ability of the car to continue to function reliably plummets.

Ford already had a "recall" to update the mytouch crap in cars.

I dont think enough attention is placed on isolating these electronic systems from each other and ensureing they are all redundant.

what happens in 5 years when you can drive down the interstate and broadcast a bluetooth signal that hyjacks the drive by wire, throttle by wire, abs brakes, traction control, stability control, airbag deployment, automatic parking etc.

We have already seen the start with the toyota electronic throttle. And the fact that they failed to include a softwere override to the throttle command if you step on the brake peddle. (although the same override was considered normal for high end vehicals with drive by wire)

Time to put the tin foil hat on. What happens when that bluetooth signal hack isnt a "hack" but instead a "feature" that is demanded by the govt to be back door'd into the systems so cops can just drive up next to you and hit a button and shut down the car and keep the doors locked?

You say it would never happen, but you would be the same people that would say it would never happen that the gov't could walk up on your private property and stick a GPS tracker on your car and track your vehical 24/7 without any warrant.