Stand by generators

[grm61]

What people need to realize is that the answer to this question isn't as simple as calculating your load. How much work are you willing to do? A PTO generator is a good option if you have a tractor that isn't needed or can live without power while the tractor is in use for other tasks. Then that brings up the next question. Are you willing to spend a few minutes to turn on and off breakers. If you've been using your tractor bringing feed to the livestock and the power has been off for a few hours once you connect the gen back up it's very possible all the fridges and freezers will come on at once, possibly the furnace, the well pump and what ever else was running when you shut off the power. That will take quite a bit of power. However if you turn off all the breakers and one by one turn them on and let each device do what it needs to and then shut off you can get by with a smaller (cheaper) generator.

As for the type of fuel, each has it's advantages and disadvantages. Diesel is usually easy to get for most, even during power outages. It can be stored for long periods of time with additives. Stand alone diesels are expensive (because of the engine). Propane stores nicely. But you need a large tank. Getting your tank filled during an emergency can be hard. For me it's impossible during an ice storm. Even during the winter it requires me to put down a thick layer of sand on the road for the truck. Natural gas is nice if you have it going to your house. If the gas company shuts it off you are dead in the water. Shouldn't be an issue with a snow storm but in an earthquake lines could be broken. Gasoline is cheap and portable. Usually most people have 5 gallons around the house for things like lawn mowers and snow blowers. Gas can get hard to find in large power outages since more people want gas vs diesel. The downside is they don't usually have as long of a life as a diesel and they can be noisy.

For me a diesel stand alone makes the most sense with a tractor pto not far behind. Right now my Honda 4200 is getting me by but it's a little small for my needs. What ever replaces it will need to be something that will last 20 years+ and will need to be able to start up without any monkeying around. I always have at least 50 gallons of treated diesel around for the tractor vs maybe 10 gallons of gas. The standalone makes more sense for me because most times we loose poer I need the tractor for storm clearing (snow, trees, ice, sanding the drive, etc.) One option I would like would be to get a generator that could be set up for PTO use and later be converted to standalone down the road.

Yep, a guy that had two tractors would have it made with a PTO generator....But Honey, I need another tractor....:laughing:

 

[GManBart]

Natural gas is nice if you have it going to your house. If the gas company shuts it off you are dead in the water. Shouldn't be an issue with a snow storm but in an earthquake lines could be broken.

Many models allow you to switch to propane with nothing more than sliding a lever/tab on the carb, so you wouldn't really be dead in the water, you'd just need to come up with a propane source.

 

[grsthegreat]

Wow 100 ampsfor ur heating coils? Must be 1 heckuva unit. Been in generator business for over 10 years an we sell more 10 to 15 kw units than anythings. A 20 kw unit will power most houses just fine. But as with most generators u have to be smart with ur load. Because with most loads its start up that sucks up the wattage. Except for resistive loads like heaters stoves etc

100 amp, 24kw heat coils are the norm up here in Idaho

 

[southerndeere]

100 amp, 24kw heat coils are the norm up here in Idaho

I guess ur right. Down here an the south we don't need all that. Heck most houses here still use a 200 amp service

 

[Oiltech]

Yep, a guy that had two tractors would have it made with a PTO generator....But Honey, I need another tractor....:laughing:

^^^^^This is the way^^^^^
I own several businesses as well as properties. With an approaching storm I fill up (2) 55 gallon drums and my 200 gallon portable fuel tank with diesel. This is enough fuel to last well over a week and usually within 2-3 days of a hurricane making land fall some fuel stations open up for fuel sales only powered by their own generator. If the storm doesn't hit our area I consume the diesel in two different diesel vehicles and with normal use of tractors & mini ex.

When a hurricane hits our area we can be 1-2 weeks without electricity so having a 22 KW PTO generator powered by one tractor I can bring power where it is needed such as my office/shop facility during the day & home in the afternoon to run all appliances as well as the AC until the morning. We have natural gas available at our home and office but all it takes is for a gas line breakage and we could be without gas for 1-2 weeks so a natural gas engine generator is risky IMHO and I would be one irate individual if I had a whole home generator sit for several years and when I finally need it I wouldn't be able to run it because of no fuel.

My other tractor & mini ex can be used to do any clean up work while the one tractor is busy powering the generator. A couple of other pluses are:
I can bring my generator to any remote location and have plenty of power.
I can bring my 50 amp mig welder anywhere and power it up for any remote welding.
Not having a engine/generator package that costs probably around $10,000 sit for possibly years with no usage.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Gary,

Check the schematic of your water heater. I have a 8000 watt water heater but only the top 4000 watt heater runs until the top of the heater is hot (a.k.a quick recovery element). Once the top is hot, the bottom 4000 watt heater comes on and heats the remainder of the tank. You can also verify this with a volt meter.

I have a 5500 watt continuous generator and can run the water heater with manual load management without disconnecting either element.

Bob

Thanks I will check it out. I was just going by what is on the tag for wattage, don't have a clue as to how it is supposed to work.

 

[crazyal]

Many models allow you to switch to propane with nothing more than sliding a lever/tab on the carb, so you wouldn't really be dead in the water, you'd just need to come up with a propane source.

Are you talking portable or stand alone? I haven't seen any stand alone NG/ Propane generators that are also set up to burn gasoline.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Where did you come up with the 4.8 gal per hour to run a 20kw on propane? Generac owners manual says 1.89 on 1/2 load and 2.90 on full load. Odds of you running full load for any extended time would be unusual. When we're running stand by, we're very conscious of what we are using and pay attention to space loads out or postpone some things to a later time.
Some things have to run, well, heat, fridge, some lights , etc. Odds of them all kicking in at the same time? I'd say remote to never. They all may end up running at the same time, but all starting at the same time. Doubtful. Other than that you will call the shots.

I got my info from the generator spec on Lowes website. I went back and looked it up and the correct figure for the Generac 20kva was 2.14 for 1/2 load and 4.0 for full load. The Kohler powered 20 KW is a bit higher on the fuel consumption and list 2.3 for half load but 8 gal per hour for full load but I think that must be a misprint.
I think your owners manual must be wrong also on full power only burning one gallon more than half power as most specs are only a fraction less than double the 1/2 load consumption

 

[Toyboy]

I got my info from the generator spec on Lowes website. I went back and looked it up and the correct figure for the Generac 20kva was 2.14 for 1/2 load and 4.0 for full load. The Kohler powered 20 KW is a bit higher on the fuel consumption and list 2.3 for half load but 8 gal per hour for full load but I think that must be a misprint.
I think your owners manual must be wrong also on full power only burning one gallon more than half power as most specs are only a fraction less than double the 1/2 load consumption

I'll stick with the gallon per hour that Generac publishes in their Owners manual until I know different. How you will know for sure one way or another, will be a challenge.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I'll stick with the gallon per hour that Generac publishes in their Owners manual until I know different. How you will know for sure one way or another, will be a challenge.

At this point (you already bought it), it makes no difference what the fuel consumption is. You will pay the cost of fuel or you simply don't run it. My 8000 running watt /10,000 surge watt Generac portable claims to run 11 hours @ 50% load on a tank of fuel which lists as 7.5 gallon capacity so 1.46 GPH. I have only ran it a few minutes to check it out. It was hard to start the first time also. I had to remove the air filter and spray gas directly into the carb to get it to fire and run and continue this for a minute or so till it finally primed up and ran on its own. Fuel shut off is a bit confusing also, so had to remove the fuel line to be certain which way was flowing fuel.

 

[southerndeere]

At this point (you already bought it), it makes no difference what the fuel consumption is. You will pay the cost of fuel or you simply don't run it. My 8000 running watt /10,000 surge watt Generac portable claims to run 11 hours @ 50% load on a tank of fuel which lists as 7.5 gallon capacity so 1.46 GPH. I have only ran it a few minutes to check it out. It was hard to start the first time also. I had to remove the air filter and spray gas directly into the carb to get it to fire and run and continue this for a minute or so till it finally primed up and ran on its own. Fuel shut off is a bit confusing also, so had to remove the fuel line to be certain which way was flowing fuel.

I have had to do that on several new out of the box generacs

 

[crazyal]

I'm not questioning you but when I was looking at diesel generators in the 10k running range fuel consumption was about a half gallon an hour at 50% load. I know diesels should be more fuel efficient but I wouldn't expect 3x.

 

[nc redneck]

My 18KW whole house generac just turned off 20 minuets ago from a 30 hour run. Strong storm hit us yesterday afternoon, 30 inch pine trees snapped off at base. We were the last 120 customers to get power. Just for fun me and wife got out and watched power crews get there bucket trucks stuck in the mud and pulled out by John Deer bulldozer. These guys have worked there but off for last 24 hours.
Generators are like tractors you can never have one to big. They are expensive and a pain to maintain, but when you need them you need one bad.
Neighbors down the road have no water, power or anything. We were warm, using bathroom when needed and watching satellite TV all day.
Just my thoughts

 

[grsthegreat]

My 18KW whole house generac just turned off 20 minuets ago from a 30 hour run. Strong storm hit us yesterday afternoon, 30 inch pine trees snapped off at base. We were the last 120 customers to get power. Just for fun me and wife got out and watched power crews get there bucket trucks stuck in the mud and pulled out by John Deer bulldozer. These guys have worked there but off for last 24 hours.
Generators are like tractors you can never have one to big. They are expensive and a pain to maintain, but when you need them you need one bad.
Neighbors down the road have no water, power or anything. We were warm, using bathroom when needed and watching satellite TV all day.
Just my thoughts

yup....ive already spent 2 separate Christmases running my house on my generator. Mine was the only house that i could see from the porch that was lit up. I pretty much dont care what the unit costs.

My current unit is an Onan, but im in the process of swapping that out to a larger Generac...not sure if ill go air cooled or liquid cooled at this point. I can get an air cooled 20KW unit for about $2800 or a liquid cooled 22KW unit for around $6,800.

im just waiting for summer and im doing some more online research to see if liquid cooled is worth the increased costs. Still not convinced if i need a liquid cooled unit. My old 3600 rpm air cooled unit is nearing 18 years of use with no issues

 

[southerndeere]

yup....ive already spent 2 separate Christmases running my house on my generator. Mine was the only house that i could see from the porch that was lit up. I pretty much dont care what the unit costs.

My current unit is an Onan, but im in the process of swapping that out to a larger Generac...not sure if ill go air cooled or liquid cooled at this point. I can get an air cooled 20KW unit for about $2800 or a liquid cooled 22KW unit for around $6,800.

im just waiting for summer and im doing some more online research to see if liquid cooled is worth the increased costs. Still not convinced.

My experiencethe liquid unit if serviced properly holds up better

 

[GrandLakeGAR]

Here is an advantage of a standby unit that may get over looked. Today was sunny, clear and in the high 60's but in the middle of the first NFL play off game the power flickered a time or two and then shut off. My Generac fired up and all our group missed was part of a commercial break. In the past with my portable I would have set a while wondering if it would be off ten minutes or ten hours, then decide on how long to wait before going through the get out, fuel and hook up routine and then have the power return about the time I got it started, as has happened in the past. Power came back on during the third quarter of the second game. I never left my chair or missed a play. These units are nice for more than just major outages. Making your own electricity is expensive and convenience has a price, it's worth it to me.

 

[southerndeere]

Here is an advantage of a standby unit that may get over looked. Today was sunny, clear and in the high 60's but in the middle of the first NFL play off game the power flickered a time or two and then shut off. My Generac fired up and all our group missed was part of a commercial break. In the past with my portable I would have set a while wondering if it would be off ten minutes or ten hours, then decide on how long to wait before going through the get out, fuel and hook up routine and then have the power return about the time I got it started, as has happened in the past. Power came back on during the third quarter of the second game. I never left my chair or missed a play. These units are nice for more than just major outages. Making your own electricity is expensive and convenience has a price, it's worth it to me.

That's what im talking about. I may nothavean auto but I can have my welder hooked up an juice flowing in 5 minutes.

 

[GManBart]

Are you talking portable or stand alone? I haven't seen any stand alone NG/ Propane generators that are also set up to burn gasoline.

I was just saying that my NG generator only requires pushing a lever to have it work with propane (obviously after some piping/fitting changes). I know they make tri-fuel setups for portable generators, but I'm not sure if anybody makes one for a stand alone designed for NG/propane. Based on my rough calculations, I think I figured out that I should be able to run my 20Kw setup for around 12 hours at half load using a 100gal propane tank, so I might eventually get a couple to keep on hand, and sort out the piping issues so I could drop them next to the unit, change connections, and be back up and running if something happens to the NG supply. Historically NG infrastructure has been pretty robust in all but earthquakes, so I'm not terribly worried, but I certainly do like backups, and options! R,

 

[GManBart]

My 18KW whole house generac just turned off 20 minuets ago from a 30 hour run. Strong storm hit us yesterday afternoon, 30 inch pine trees snapped off at base. We were the last 120 customers to get power. Just for fun me and wife got out and watched power crews get there bucket trucks stuck in the mud and pulled out by John Deer bulldozer. These guys have worked there but off for last 24 hours.
Generators are like tractors you can never have one to big. They are expensive and a pain to maintain, but when you need them you need one bad.
Neighbors down the road have no water, power or anything. We were warm, using bathroom when needed and watching satellite TV all day.
Just my thoughts

Been there, done that....it's a comforting feeling not having to worry about power. When we were moving into our current house the power was out for over three days and it was really hot that week, so we were lucky to still be in the old house. After a couple of shorter outages upwards of 12hrs, we decided to go with a whole house unit, and we're really glad we did.

Everybody's situation is different, but my wife has a pretty high-level position where she works from home. The company is actually in D.C., so if we lose power it's not like she can just drive to the office. She can't be cut off from phones and computers, so we have backups for everything....the standby generator, an 11kw portable generator, cellular phones, mobile hotspot for data, etc, etc. With the frequency we lose power out here in the boonies, it's simply too much of a risk to her job to not have things set up to run automatically. Further, I sometimes have to travel for work (up to a couple of weeks at a time), and she would struggle physically to maintain a portable generator with fuel because she's quite petite. Sure, she could probably figure a way to use one of our hand trucks to bring the fuel cans back to the generator (outside hookup is behind the house), but that sort of thing would be hard on her, and I simply don't want her to have to deal with that sort of stuff. As it is now, it's pretty much a non-event when we lose power

 

[DKCDKC]

As I advance in years, relatives and friends nearby with medical issues - oxygen for example - have invested in whole-house generators. Since we don't have natural gas out here in the country, they are all on propane. And, if I get into a medical problem, I would do it too. But right now I am very happy with a small 6 kw gasoline unit. My service - a mile long - is underground and I am out very rarely, and usually for less than a half hour. I am on a co-op and they have a lot better outage rate than the investor owned electric utility I once worked for. If I have reason to believe that power will be out for more than a half hour or so, I just fire up and plug in my little generator ($150 at an auction almost new). It powers the frig and lights - and the water pump if I turn other stuff off. I have a wood stove for heat in the winter and lots of fans for cooling in the summer. Living in Virginia's mountains means not having a lot of extreme weather anyway. With a generator, like any other equipment, you pick something that will meet reasonable minimums for a reasonable cost. I prefer to keep my dollars for other things where I can.