Steep snow performance of Toolcat 5600?

[aelsnow]

Greetings. I'm new to the forums and this is my first post. I searched these forums (and others) looking for an answer to this question, but I couldn't find it---hoping some of you can help me out.

I'm looking at a Toolcat 5600 for snow blowing, but I would like more information about its ability to keep traction in the snow on steep grades.

My TC would be used to clear out a cabin community in the Pacific Northwest.
The job involves (all dirt) steep access roads, steep driveways, some off-camber steep roads, and unavoidable side hills.

I plan to run an Erskine/QuickAttach 73" blower on it.
The snow often sits for 1-2 weeks between clearing, and worst case I need to clear 2'-3' of wet and/or frozen snow.
We currently do the job with a 60 HP tractor, chains on the rear wheels, and a 7' PTO blower.
The TC would replace this tractor.

If I put chains or studded tires on the Toolcat, does the TC's traction control and 4WD work well enough to handle a job like this?

This video of a TC 5600 (w/out chains) getting stuck in 1/2" of snow has me concerned about the 4WD capability:

 

[DEWFPO]

I live at 7,100' in CO and have been blowing our 12% grade, north facing driveways (actually a loop driveway) since the winter of 2008. Parts of it are off-camber as well. I have a 72" Bobcat SB200 blower with the High Torque fan motor option. The HT fan doesn't blow the snow as far as the High Speed, Lower Torque option but it will chew through heavy snow well. My 2009 series D doesn't have the traction control of the newer models. I use good quality chains on all 4 tires and have several hundred pounds of sand in the bed. I've never gotten stuck, even when the drives are really iced up but it's tried a few times on the off-camber sections. The crab steering really helps if you do slide sideways. I'm careful and take my time. Weight, high rpm and slow going wins the day. The key is, if the snowpack is winning, stop, re-access your approach and try something different before you dig yourself into a jam. In my experience, trying to gorilla your way through something usually means your going to loose. The newer units with the traction control are suppose to be even better. If you get 3 feet of wet, heavy snow, I suggest taking the the snow down in a couple of layers if you can. In the video you attached, he's approaching the slope at a 45 degree angle rather than at 90 degrees and is on wet slippery grass. I don't know that studs will help you much in deep snow. The chains really do help. I've got the 29" tires on mine in lieu of the std. 27's. Every little but helps.

 

[mikester]

I think a lot will depend on your terrain. I'm at the edge of the snow belt in a hilly area and tend to see guys getting their skidsteer snowblowers stuck pretty frequently. Too low to the ground. In town using chains on level ground they do ok. I also find that many hydraulic feed units can't throw the snow very far. You are going to want hi-flow >20GPM.

 

[npartist]

That's my video and I intentionally picked out the weakness of open diffs that the newer units have (without electronic aid of traction control). In general I dont get stuck in snow with just the R4 tires. However I think a 60hp tractor is better at not getting stuck due to large diameter rear tires. The toolcat will likely handle what you are asking it to do esp with chains.

Check out my other toolcat videos that arent staged: Bobcat Toolcat and Skid Steer At Work: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8d9FovK2dNT1P2xH4pZ_NBi1n8yMM_MJ

 

[LouNY]

Put good studded chains on her and it will work,
such as the Aquiline, TRYGG or OFA's.
They will grip better then any other style of conventional tire chains.

 

[Doughknob]

Weight, narrow large cleated tires, locking differentials, electronic TC all help with snow removal. If possible, buy the biggest heaviest tractor you can......

 

[ruffdog]

The Toolcat has small tires and lacks ground clearance compared to a tractor. It does have centralized weight, all wheel steer, and traction control. The OP's description makes it sound like chains would be mandated. With the suspension and weight, I have found that the tires stay planted and don't spin much. The traction control seems to be the type that applies the brake to the spinning tires and it isn't as quick acting as a car/truck. I did get my TC stuck twice last year. I drove up on a snow pile and with not much ground clearance, I was stuck. The other time I misjudged where my culvert was and got stuck in the ditch. I think a set of narrow winter tires with GOOD chains (check for clearances) would be fine when blowing as this video shows:

 

[aelsnow]

Thanks all for the detailed feedback.
Very helpful.

 

[a5t1]

FWIW, I live in an area where we get 300+ inches of snow a year. I purchased peerless auto-trac chains and couldn't be happier.

 

[vortex]

Yea... chains... or studs for hills.
Turf tires are interesting on ice....

But the operator can deal with the lack of ground clearance as long as you are aware of it.

The 400# I hung off the hitch does help a fair bit. This is an F with the open diffs. The open diffs don't matter too much, if you are on mostly even ground. But if you get one wheel up high somewhere, you can get stuck real easy. The traction control at least gets you out of those spots on the newer ones.

 

[aelsnow]

So far so good, but the snow thus far has been light, fluffy, and no deeper than ~15".

The real test comes when the snow is wet, settled, and re-frozen.

I'm using 2-link square-link chains, a QuickAttach (Erskine) 2420 73" high-flow blower, and 10 buckets of sand in the bed.

Much thanks to @DEWFPO for suggesting buckets of sand instead of bags, and holding them in-place by setting them on a stall mat.

 

[ruffdog]

It looks like you have the 29x12.5-15 turfs on it...what brand chains and maybe part number? Does it still ride fairly smooth with the chains? If the pails of sand are not FULL, it would still be 500-700 lbs of weight?

 

[aelsnow]

Yes, you're correct that I'm running the 29x12.5-15 turf tires on it.

The chains were custom-made based on the tape-measure measurements of the tires by a chain builder who partners with a local tire shop.

I initially bought Aquiline studded chains (that supposedly fit the turf tires), but the crossbars were too long, and I had to return them.

The ride with the chains on is smooth as long as I'm on snow
It's a bumpy ride on dry ground, and they leave track-like marks in gravel, but that isn't an issue with this job site.

The traction thus far has been great.
I'm able to blow snow going down, up, and across the hills.
I was pleasantly surprised I was able to blow ~12" of (fluffy) snow while going up a steep driveway.

That being said, it hasn't been icy yet, just compacted cold snow.
Once it gets icy, I may wish I'd gone with studded chains.

 

[aelsnow]

I did get it stuck once so far when I dropped a tire off the road into deep snow.

The snow was too deep to back out, but I was able to self-extract by driving forward, down into the deep snow and blowing my way back up to the road.

I did install an electric winch on the receiver hitch as a backup plan, since I'm working alone in a remote area.

 

[ruffdog]

I have a pair of these traction boards and they work great.

https://www.amazon.com/XPV-Recovery...cphy=9019344&hvtargid=pla-1230666217329&psc=1

 

[aelsnow]

@ruffdog re. the weight of sand, I estimate it to be 600 - 700 lbs.

The buckets are filled up to ~2-3" shy of the bucket rim.

I didn't weigh them, but I filled a few of the buckets by cutting open one 60 lb bag of sand per bucket (the others were filled from a sand pile).

 

[aelsnow]

I have a pair of these traction boards and they work great.

https://www.amazon.com/XPV-Recovery...cphy=9019344&hvtargid=pla-1230666217329&psc=1

@ruffdog these look interesting, but I'm guessing they won't work with my chains on.

Do you think they'd work with my chains (which have cross-bars every 2 links, so most of the ground contact is chain rather than tire)?

I'm thinking my chains will just destroy the plastic traction board?

 

[ruffdog]

@ruffdog these look interesting, but I'm guessing they won't work with my chains on.

Do you think they'd work with my chains (which have cross-bars every 2 links, so most of the ground contact is chain rather than tire)?

I'm thinking my chains will just destroy the plastic traction board?

The traction boards are a tough plastic but chains would focus the pressure quite a bit. I think your chains would be every bit as good as the boards.

 

[aelsnow]

I finally got the Toolcat and Quickattach 2420 high-flow blower into tougher conditions.

Our cabin community received over 4’ of snow, then it rained, then it froze, and a week later we got up to start moving snow. By the time we started working it, it was 2’ - 3’ of densely packed snow with an ice layer on the ground.

Some of the snow was so dense it hurt to kick the face of the banks.

The machine handled it great.

It was slow going, especially the first pass, which had to be a full width bite. For the first pass, we had to raise the blower up, take off the first layer, move ahead until the front tires started to get buried, back up, lower the blower, then take another pass. Sometimes 2 passes, sometimes more.

Once the first pass was cut, it went a lot faster because we could take full-height bites limited to the width the machine could handle.

The plows on pickups and UTVs were rendered useless by this storm. People couldn’t get their UTVs 5’ out of their garage.

The blower does not have shear pins, and instead uses hydraulic bypass valves on the auger and the fan. I just back off when the bypass triggers, and it starts blowing again. I tripped the bypass many times until I learned to back off just before it trips. Even then, I'd sometimes overdo it and trip the bypass, but it doesn't really matter. I can't imagine doing this job with a blower that uses shear pins.

The chute only clogged a couple times working at 30-32 degrees F, but it clogged a number of times when working warmer snow at 38-40 degrees F. We also learned to back off at the right time to keep it from clogging.

As for traction, the 2-link square-link chains on all 4 wheels worked well. For most of the job, I had all the traction I needed. Part of the job requires blowing going uphill, and the chains handled it fine. It's of course slower going up, but sometimes there's no choice.

My only traction problem was side-hilling on ice. The chains don't have bite at 90 degrees to the direction of travel. If I were to do it again, I'd get chains with crossbars that run in both directions (like the hexagonal chains used on loaders/tractors), or get v-bar studded chains.

Crab steer was handy working close to drop-offs or clearing uphill-side banks on curved corners. It keeps the Toolcat's wheels in the cleared area while the blower chews into the banks. I didn't use it a lot, but it saved me a lot of trouble in the cases where I did use it.

We didn't get the Toolcat stuck at all during this job, but I was *really* glad to have the winch on the back just in case. We're working alone, usually at night, in a remote area.

I finished off by removing a pile of previously blown snow that was ~6' high, eating away at it a little at a time from the top down.

Great machine.

 

[ruffdog]

Quickattach says they discuss your specific situation so they can match the hydraulics to your machine. So, what hydraulic motor displacement did you end up with? (eg: 6.1, 7.9, 9.8)