Stick Welding Performance Charts

[Beltzington]

View attachment 287786

These guidelines were taken from an old Miller SMAW training publication. Does the recommended amperage still apply to the new generation of inverter welders and is the rod chart still a reliable tool for selecting type and size? Also, is there any relationship between the diameter of the rod and the thickness of the metal being worked? TIA

 

[CNC Dan]

<img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=287786"/>

These guidelines were taken from an old Miller SMAW training publication. Does the recommended amperage still apply to the new generation of inverter welders and is the rod chart still a reliable tool for selecting type and size? Also, is there any relationship between the diameter of the rod and the thickness of the metal being worked? TIA

i see that chart in many newer publications, such as the manual for my miller dynasty 200DX.

 

[Beltzington]

I guess what I really am trying to determine what can be done with an 115VAC Stick welder. Several companies sell these inverter type machines but the specifications don't seem to add up? Most require well over the standard 20-amp household circuit to weld at about 100-Amps. If you have to run a special 30-Amp 115VAC circuit why not just run a 230VAC and be done with it?

What would be considered the minimum output amperage for reliable single-pass welds on 3/8" steel and what rods are most used for general purpose welds?

 

[Shield Arc]

What would be considered the minimum output amperage for reliable single-pass welds on 3/8" steel and what rods are most used for general purpose welds?

If I had a machine that would put out 130-amps I wouldn't think twice about splicing 1-inch thick plate, with 1/8-inch 7018, with the correct bevel, and a weed burner for a little preheat.

 

[CNC Dan]

If I had a machine that would put out 130-amps I wouldn't think twice about splicing 1-inch thick plate, with 1/8-inch 7018, with the correct bevel, and a weed burner for a little preheat.

but you are lucky to get 100 amps output with a 20 amp 110/120 volt outlet.

 

[CNC Dan]

I guess what I really am trying to determine what can be done with an 115VAC Stick welder. Several companies sell these inverter type machines but the specifications don't seem to add up? Most require well over the standard 20-amp household circuit to weld at about 100-Amps. If you have to run a special 30-Amp 115VAC circuit why not just run a 230VAC and be done with it?

What would be considered the minimum output amperage for reliable single-pass welds on 3/8" steel and what rods are most used for general purpose welds?

single pass, fillit weld on .375 stock you could use 1/4" electrodes. thats going to take 200 amps to 275 amps.

but why single pass?
using 3/32" electrodes you can run 7018 at 90 amps off of a 110 volt 20 amp outlet. you will have to make several passes to weld 3/8" stock, but it can be done.

 

[Shield Arc]

Just can't get my mind around someone wanting a machine that will run on 120-volts! Might as well use a hot glue gun.:laughing:

100-amps max, pretty much limits you to 3/32-inch rod, so 1/4-inch material thickness. 3/8-inch with the correct joint prep, maybe!

 

[Beltzington]

Thanks folks - I am looking for something I can run off my 4400 watt generator and it looks like I could squeeze a 100 amps from the 230/20amp outlet without kicking the breaker. While on commercial power I could crankup the amps a little more if needed. Anyone familar with this old machine? I like its portability, simplicity, and outdoor rating.

Lincoln Electric INVERTEC V100-S & V130-S

 

[Shield Arc]

Never seen one of them, but I have it's big brother, best machine I've ever run! :cool2:

 

[joshuabardwell]

If you have to run a special 30-Amp 115VAC circuit why not just run a 230VAC and be done with it?

Because Marketing that's why. Because they can sell a machine that has "120 V" on the box and a high amperage rating, and most people won't know that they will never actually achieve that amperage rating without blowing a bunch of breakers or running a dedicated circuit. They will think, "Gosh! I can get 100+ amps on a 120 circuit with this welder! Why bother buying a 240 welder?"

 

[joshuabardwell]

using 3/32" electrodes you can run 7018 at 90 amps off of a 110 volt 20 amp outlet. you will have to make several passes to weld 3/8" stock, but it can be done.

Sure, but why would you want to do that to yourself, especially if you weren't an experienced welder? I realize there may be situations where somebody simply doesn't have access to 220, such as a renter, or if you do a lot of welding at other people's homes. But it seems like if you had the option of going 220, that's mostly be the right thing to do.

 

[joshuabardwell]

Thanks folks - I am looking for something I can run off my 4400 watt generator and it looks like I could squeeze a 100 amps from the 230/20amp outlet without kicking the breaker. While on commercial power I could crankup the amps a little more if needed. Anyone familar with this old machine? I like its portability, simplicity, and outdoor rating.

Lincoln Electric INVERTEC V100-S & V130-S

Be aware that there is additional current draw when you strike the arc. Your generator is rated at about 18 amps. The welder is rated at 16 amps input at 90 amps output. Because you are so close to your generator's capacity, you may exceed it when you strike the arc, causing the voltage to drop, causing the arc to fail. I don't have personal experience doing this, but my research when I was buying a welder led me to conclude that running a welder off a generator is not as simple as it seems like it ought to be. Do some additional research for yourself before you commit to this path.

 

[CNC Dan]

Sure, but why would you want to do that to yourself, especially if you weren't an experienced welder? I realize there may be situations where somebody simply doesn't have access to 220, such as a renter, or if you do a lot of welding at other people's homes. But it seems like if you had the option of going 220, that's mostly be the right thing to do.

agreed. I got one of the little welders so i don't have to take my dynasty 200 DX, and risk dropping a $3.5k machine, if I need to do some work that is too big for my SP125+.
And if I can get to a 220 volt outlet it will put out up to 140 amps. Good enough for most 1/8" electrodes.

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

Your 200 DX dynasty runs on 110 as well...if you want to risk dropping it..

ONE of the reasons people want to run on 110V is that many older panel boxes are nearly full and adding an additional 240 amp circuit isn't an option, whether in the home or in the shop. This leaves room for a single 110V circuit somewhere. A 30 amp breaker isn't really that rare. With the NEC the way it is, with the allowance for down rating for wiring for duty cycle limited welders, it doesn't mean you have to necessarily upgrade the wiring (though local codes should be checked and the formula the NEC uses followed) in the panel box. A quick swap out of the breaker MAY be all that is needed. But with all things considered, 90 amps is really where most people end up running DC Tig for multi pass or where a satisfactory job can be done with 1/8" 6011 on DC. Even for some brands of 7018, 7014, and 6013, 1/8" will be ok.

 

[CNC Dan]

Your 200 DX dynasty runs on 110 as well...if you want to risk dropping it..

I don't. And I have it stuffed in a cart, set up for TIG, and it's at work.
Plus I wouldn't want to leave it in my car, in case some punk does a smash and grab.

The small 110/220 volt inverters are small and light enough to carry into the house when I'm done, and inexpensive enough that I don't worry too much about dropping it.

 

[Beltzington]

Never seen one of them, but I have it's big brother, best machine I've ever run! :cool2:

I would call you a d*ck if you were not such a wonderful fountain of knowledge on this forum. If I had your equipment I would show it off every chance I had. :laughing:

 

[Beltzington]

Be aware that there is additional current draw when you strike the arc. Your generator is rated at about 18 amps. The welder is rated at 16 amps input at 90 amps output. Because you are so close to your generator's capacity, you may exceed it when you strike the arc, causing the voltage to drop, causing the arc to fail. I don't have personal experience doing this, but my research when I was buying a welder led me to conclude that running a welder off a generator is not as simple as it seems like it ought to be. Do some additional research for yourself before you commit to this path.

Good advice, research is so much easier then real work. Still looking I am in no hurry. Thanks!

 

[Shield Arc]

I would call you a d*ck

Oh trust me, I've been called way worse than that!

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

From my perspective and research on the matter...
There are still a lot of old recommendations out there that are being recycled even by the majors that no one catches. On the Miller website, in fact there is existing conflicting information on TIG welding Tungsten selection. These recommendations are designed for transformer machines. IF you see they are the same ones as the old ones, then you can be assured of that. Inverters have a different volt/amp curve. And they employ the use of arc force and hot start which changes the way things weld. Had a customer call me yesterday that had bought a couple of PA 200's and had other units with a large amount of transformers. He was discussing the difference between the feel of the welders and what he was used to. Inverters typically run slightly shorter arcs and when you need more heat, you push in, not pull out due to the arc force control. This takes some retraining, but is not impossible to learn. Due to arc force control heat settings can be a good bit lower because of the way it works. It's not to say these old charts are inaccurate, but they may not fit well with the style of welding people would do with an inverter. Even so, they do offer a ball park setting, and you may find a better setting 10-20% one way or the other after some experimentation.

 

[Shield Arc]

Inverters typically run slightly shorter arcs and when you need more heat, you push in, not pull out due to the arc force control.

Really?!
I have three inverters, they're not that way. I know when running 6010 with the PA-200 the sweet spot is just a shade closer in arc length than the others. No big deal to me, I find myself adjusting the arc length all the time, depending on what I want the puddle to do.

Oh and just to add, there is no sweet spot with the Dynasty with SMAW!