Stuck Again

Mike120 · Jun 30, 2007

The only time I get stuck lately is when the ruts develop, fill with water and I wander into a deep one. When the belly drags, the wheels spin and I'm stuck. I have a short piece of chain with hooks on each end that I hook to the wheel. I lift the wheel with my high-lift jack sitting on a piece of 4X6, throw another piece of 4X6 under the tire, jack her down and go do the other side. Once the belly is out of the mud I can usually drive right out of the hole. Usually takes about a half an hour, I get covered with mud, but I can get out. I just did it this morning and unless all this rain stops, I expect I'll be doing it some more 'cause I'm running out of places without ruts to drive on and I need to feed twice a day.

I tried a winch once. It was rated at 7K and I hooked it to my F-350 dually. My tractor weighs over 5K and all the winch did was drag the F-350 closer to the tractor. The tractor didn't budge. Winches are great ideas, but you need to have an unmovable object to hook them to and the winch probably needs to be rated about double the weight of the tractor......

milkman · Jun 30, 2007

I got a 4K winch from HF with a wired remote for $49.95, not to use on my tractor, but I think it would work, as far as the alternator goes, they don't hook to the aternator, they draw from the battery and the alternator recharges the battery, they use them on atv's and their alternators are also small so I don't see a problem there, they are for short bursts of use and the battery will run them for quite a while. With a remote, I think the winch and the tractor would get you out of a pretty good mud hole.

RonMar · Jun 30, 2007

milkman said:
I got a 4K winch from HF with a wired remote for $49.95, not to use on my tractor, but I think it would work, as far as the alternator goes, they don't hook to the aternator, they draw from the battery and the alternator recharges the battery, they use them on atv's and their alternators are also small so I don't see a problem there, they are for short bursts of use and the battery will run them for quite a while. With a remote, I think the winch and the tractor would get you out of a pretty good mud hole.

Any load applied to the battery is also applied to the alternator and the alternator needs to make up the current used by the winch when it is done depleting the battery. This will take a long long time at a 20 amp alternator output. That big winch motor is going to look like an electrical short to the alternator and produce a large voltage drop that the regulator will try to make up for by putting the alternator to full output. Imagine how long your CUT alternator would last using it for an arc welder.

That 4K winch on a guad(300-400#) is not working nearly as hard as a winch on a 2500# tractor would be. The power output on most quad alternators is probably as great as your typical CUT electrical system.

the6shooter · Jul 1, 2007

The winch was for an assist, not to drag the hole load, the tractor only weighs 3500 lbs. With 12' leads I could sit in the seat and the winch would only assist. My situation was, I know I was stuck, I just mad it worse. when the thing was first stuck, I would have had just alittle more help, I wouldn't have needed to pay for the recovery. Besides, it was just an idea. but I do have the perfict spot to mount one.
david

P.s. please don't tell me no one has stuck a corner of their brushhog in the mud a time or two, and didn't get the tires spinning.

milkman · Jul 1, 2007

RonMar said:
Any load applied to the battery is also applied to the alternator and the alternator needs to make up the current used by the winch when it is done depleting the battery. This will take a long long time at a 20 amp alternator output. That big winch motor is going to look like an electrical short to the alternator and produce a large voltage drop that the regulator will try to make up for by putting the alternator to full output. Imagine how long your CUT alternator would last using it for an arc welder.

That 4K winch on a guad(300-400#) is not working nearly as hard as a winch on a 2500# tractor would be. The power output on most quad alternators is probably as great as your typical CUT electrical system.

Nope, the load is applied to the battery, it does not short the alternator, the alternator sees the battery being depleted and supplies 20 amps of juice (if it's a 20 amp alt.) till the battery is fully charged again.

bx23barry · Jul 1, 2007

I'd put it on the rear instead of the front. Don't want to pull yourself into the mud but back out of it. I receiver mounted winch could be mounted on the front/rear of your tractor/truck/trailer... I would use "welding cable" type connectors for the battery lead hook-ups.

RonMar · Jul 1, 2007

milkman said:
Nope, the load is applied to the battery, it does not short the alternator, the alternator sees the battery being depleted and supplies 20 amps of juice (if it's a 20 amp alt.) till the battery is fully charged again.

Yes, it does! The regulator on the alternator sees anything outside it's regulated voltage range as a short or an open and goes to full or no output. The battery may be in there as a shock absorber, but when you are talking about the high current draws(hundreds of amps) of a winch motor under load, you are going to see a very large voltage drop at the battery and in turn the alternator, just like you would if you shorted the battery hot lead to ground. Yes, the alternator will go to full output. And that 20 amp alternator can probably put out a bit more than 20 amps if the engine RPM is up and it's regulator runs the field winding to full current, which it will do in a futile attempt to maintain the battery voltage at 14.5VDC. This heavy load will be hard on the alternator. The regulators also don't like large voltage swings as it forces them to deal with large swings in field current.

There is no free lunch! The battery dosn't make energy, it merely stores it That alternator will have to make up every amp hour that the winch sucks out. It will run at maximum output the whole time the winch is running, and continue to provide full output untill the battery charge voltage is built back up. 200 amps for 5 minutes is about 16 amp/hours. It will take the 20 amp alternator at full output more than 45 minutes to make up for it.

I doubt the manufacturer rated that little 20 amp alternator at a 100% duty cycle. A lot of these little guys don't even have airflow openings. They rely on thermal radiation thru the case since they are rated for small current draws. It was chosen based on cost vs profit to meet a particular need with a reasonable reliability(live thru the typical warranty period). I doubt the design considerations included an electric winch. But what the hey, it is only money and CUT alternators are cheap right?

sandman2234 · Jul 1, 2007

Well, if electric winches aren't everyones idea of the right way, then how about a hydraulic motor turning a winch?
Seems like you could put quick couplers on each end and store the hoses when not needed, and have a great way of pulling it out.
As far as comealongs go, I have a 6 ton and it has pulled my JD2555 out more times then I care to think about. A couple lengths of chain and that comealong and out it comes, with no assist from the tractor. All I need is something strong enough to hook to. The one ton Ford and my half ton Chevy p/u together make a good anchor, been there, done that.
I almost got that Ford stuck today, cleaning out a perculation pond. I didn't realize just how soft it was till it was too late. I can just imagine 10,000 pounds, duals, 4x4 and what it would take to get it out.
David from jax

RonMar · Jul 1, 2007

Hydraulic, Now that is a cool idea...

Jstpssng · Jul 1, 2007

If you have a bucket, why do you need a winch? I pulled myself out many times with the bucket; either by dropping it and pulling, or using a chain to a nearby anchor. As I get more accustomed to the limitations of my tractor, I find I spend more time working, and less time trying to get back to work.