Switching FEL valve body to another.

   / Switching FEL valve body to another. #1  

Chainsaw.

Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2021
Messages
43
Tractor
Yanmar YM1500 & YM2000D
I have an old Yanmar Ym 2000D with a FEL, looks like a home built jobbie. It currently has a two spool valve body to operate the FEL. Well a friend gave me another valve body that is a three spool. It is slightly smaller in size but the fitting holes are of a very similar size. I’m wondering how I can calculate if/how much flow loss I would experience if I used it vs the original.

I would like to switch to the three valve as it would give me third function capability. Also the triple is newer and tighter.
 
   / Switching FEL valve body to another. #2  
Best way to figure that out would be to try to find the make and model of both valves and try to search for specs online on the flow rating of the valve. Then compare with the flow rating of the tractor. You'll want the flow rate of the valve bigger than the the flow rate on the tractor.

I couldn't find any flow rate specs on the tractor but I assume that it put's out somewhere from 4 to 5 GPM, just a guess here. Most valves have a flow rating of at least 8 GPM. As far as differences comparing both valves, I really doubt you'll notice any difference whatsoever in possible flow losses.
 
   / Switching FEL valve body to another. #3  
I also did not find much info on your Yanmar. Other than 20HP.
I ASSUME open center hydraulics. The replacement valve has to be open center if your tractor has open center. A closed center valve will not work (unless your tractor is closed center OR the valve can be converted to open center)
I would also guess your flow is about 4gpm
Something else to consider; does one of the spools have float? Normally used on the loader boom/lift cylinders.
 
   / Switching FEL valve body to another.
  • Thread Starter
#4  
You guys guess good! Flow rate is 4.5 gallons at 2400 rpm (PTO speed).

I didn't think about them being open/closed centers, I'll see if I can check that tonight.

As far as float....Hmm...only way toc check that might be to pull the spool....or should it just "stick" in the forward position. I don't know what the intended use was for this valve body originally but I doubt it was for an FEL type application, so that may be something I might have to compromise on.
 
   / Switching FEL valve body to another. #5  
Might also want to see if your current valve has a power beyond circuit. And if the new one is not PB capable it isnt gonna work
 
   / Switching FEL valve body to another.
  • Thread Starter
#6  
Hmm... First I gotta figure out what that means..
 
   / Switching FEL valve body to another. #7  
PB is power beyond. Pump flow goes through the valve and is available to other circuits downstream. Use of PB valve on a loader on a tractor is pretty common as the oil goes from the loader valve to the rear of the tractor for the 3PT hydraulics.

A PB valve will have work ports (usually 2 per spool) going to the cylinders. There will be 1 hose for pump supply, one hose for PB, one hose going to tank when the valve is in use.

Most replacement type valves can be converted to PB type valve with a plug or sleeve.

I am not sure what type of valve you are looking at, but I used a Prince "Wolverine" style valve rated at 8 GPM on my NH to add rear remotes. The valve has worked flawless and is compact in size. There are various configurations available - # of spools, detent, etc. I got it through Surplus Center.
 
   / Switching FEL valve body to another. #8  
Show a picture of the valve you are looking at.
 
   / Switching FEL valve body to another. #9  
How many hoses connect to your current valve. It's either 6 or 7
 
   / Switching FEL valve body to another. #10  
Instead of replacing your valve with this other one, why not supplement it with the other one? Tee off before your existing valve and run to the new one so now you have 3 new extra functions Instead of just one. And you don't have to sacrifice float or anything else.
 
   / Switching FEL valve body to another. #11  
Instead of replacing your valve with this other one, why not supplement it with the other one? Tee off before your existing valve and run to the new one so now you have 3 new extra functions Instead of just one. And you don't have to sacrifice float or anything else.
Sounds good on theory....but you can't "tee" a pressure line on an open circuit system
 
   / Switching FEL valve body to another. #12  
Sounds good on theory....but you can't "tee" a pressure line on an open circuit system
I don't know that we know it's an open center circuit. Was that confirmed already?
 
   / Switching FEL valve body to another. #13  
I don't know that we know it's an open center circuit. Was that confirmed already?
Not confirmed but but still 99.9% probability its open center. Therefore....NO TEE on the pressure line
 
   / Switching FEL valve body to another. #14  
Not confirmed but but still 99.9% probability its open center. Therefore....NO TEE on the pressure line
Ok then, put the other valve manifold in series with the existing one rather than in parallel.
 
   / Switching FEL valve body to another. #15  
Ok then, put the other valve manifold in series with the existing one rather than in parallel.
Yup. Which is why I was asking if current or new valve is a power beyond valve.
 
   / Switching FEL valve body to another. #16  
A loader valve should have one spool that floats, so you can float the bucket. Often that is used for back dragging to smooth dirt, or when scooping up material on a hard base that's not level.

A good loader valve is carefully balanced so you can raise/lower and curl at the same time. My old Kubota could do that and my current Branson can't. While it's not a deal breaker- I bought the Branson knowing how the valve worked- if I was going to the trouble to add a new valve I'd want it to let me do both operations at the same time. I don't know how you find that out though as its not in the usual specs.
 
   / Switching FEL valve body to another. #17  
A loader valve should have one spool that floats, so you can float the bucket. Often that is used for back dragging to smooth dirt, or when scooping up material on a hard base that's not level.

A good loader valve is carefully balanced so you can raise/lower and curl at the same time. My old Kubota could do that and my current Branson can't. While it's not a deal breaker- I bought the Branson knowing how the valve worked- if I was going to the trouble to add a new valve I'd want it to let me do both operations at the same time. I don't know how you find that out though as its not in the usual specs.

I never did hear why the OP wants to change his original valve. BTW, his tractor is an open center hydraulic ciruit. Almost every compact and smaller tractor under 45 hp is open center. Many tractors up to 90 hp are as well. Most older tractors are open center with John Deere full size ag tractors and construction equipment being the notable exceptions.

If the tractor is closed center, it will have a pressurized container called an "accumulator". You can't miss it. Don't mess with it.

To replace valves, the port threads need to either match or use thread adapters. I like quick disconnects, but they are by no means necessary, just convenient. And more expense.

Multi-spool low flow control valve sets are inexpensive these days on the surplus mfg. goods market, I can't imagine why anyone would go to the hassle of re-plumbing with a used valve. But I'm curious. My bet is you'll eat up any savings just in hose & adapter costs.

No you cannot Tee off a open center pressure line. You can use the Power Beyond port to daisy chain blocks of control valves if you plumb them right, have the right PB sleeve installed in each valve, and run a separate return line from each valve block.

That ability to raise and curl at the same time is one of the things you get with a better quality valve - always assuming that the system has enough flow to do both at once. The other thing you get with a quality valve is greater precision at very low flows and small movements of the bucket and arms. With a really good valve you can move very,very slowly and repeatably in small increments. Taking maybe five or ten seconds for it to creep a quarter of an inch.

Float can be tested because the valve control lever will mechanically "stick" at the extreme throw. Doesn't need to be hooked up. Usually only one spool in a multi-spool valve body will have float. Float actuation is just a spring, a ball, and a detent in the spool. I don't use float much if ever. Some do.
good luck,
rScotty
 
   / Switching FEL valve body to another. #18  
Hmm... First I gotta figure out what that means..
It means determine if you have open or closed center hydraulics.
I assume open.
Open uses PB (Power Beyond)
Closed does not use PB
So, LD1 was saying determine if it's open center (will have PB) and that closed center (no PB) will not be compatible if you have open center.
 
   / Switching FEL valve body to another. #19  
It means determine if you have open or closed center hydraulics.
I assume open.
Open uses PB (Power Beyond)
Closed does not use PB
So, LD1 was saying determine if it's open center (will have PB) and that closed center (no PB) will not be compatible if you have open center.
And if the new valve is an open center valve with no PB, it wont work with either open or closed center tractors.

There is ALOT more to hydraulics than some simple fittings that thread in and a handle. You have a real possibility of really screwing this up if you dont know what you are doing
 

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