Synthetic oil - roughly the same

[Dargo]

gsxr, you know I was generally making a joke about TBN. If you start with a low TBN, where do you go from there? /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif Well, I'm off to go play in the 18" of snow we have gotten so far today. I have to report that the Kubota RTV has some difficulty in that much snow, but the Yamaha Rhino still rips through it with three kids tied to sleds on the back! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[gsxr1100]

Dargo--I know. I read the TBN and I lol. You always keep me on my toes!...or ROFLMAO /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[fractal]

What do you think of delo 400? Seems they recently added a bunch of moly to it and recently got the ch-4 plus rating. Seems to be a pretty good oil, especially for less than six bucks a gallon. Someone posted an virgin analysis over at bobs.

I switched to it last year before they added the moly and can only think the new stuff is even better. 12.2 base number isn't all that shabby if I read the spec correctly, and lets me stock one oil for the minivan, pickup and tractor. I still have to keep some 10w30 for the briggs and strattons that claim 15w40 will ruin the splash lubricated engines.

 

[gsxr1100]

It shows a good report for a group 2 and a 3(minus). I state 3 (minus) since is not a group 3 but close. I think they also added boron on this round. If you are doing a OCI, it would be fine. I would not use this in winter areas though. The pour point is only -27 F so the pumping temp would only be around
-7 F. This oil would not work in my winters unless you like slooooow moving fluid.

Delo 400 is a good oil and I would say it is about the same as Delvac in my book.

 

[r0GuE]

Could you explain pour point and pumping temp? I assume pour point is a measure of fluidity at a low temp (the reason I switched to synth for my BX2200), but what is pumping temp (why wouldn't the temp an oil pumps at be the same as the temp it pours at?)

When I switched to the 15W-40 for the BX, you explained that it was -47 if I recall. So that means I should not have a problem in western PA winters (your in Mass, so I guess you have much colder temps than I). Do the higher numbers (i.e. 15W-40) over what KUbota calls for (10W-40) protect better at higher temps, yet still pour well at lower temps because they are synth?)

MAN this stuff is confusing,... but I'm trying. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Anything electrical/digital, and I'm all over it... chemical... not so good /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[gsxr1100]

The Pour point is the lowest temp the oil will move on a plate within a certain time interval, ie. like 5-seconds. Now the pumping temp is above (higher) then the pour point. The pumping temp is the lowest possible temp at which the pump will provide adequate pressure (and protection) in the system. I always state 20 F degree higher since it is “rule of thumb”. Again, it is worst case here. That being stated, it can be from 5 to 20 degrees above pour point. But I like the worst case for my applications to provide a “safety level”

The Amsoil 15w-40 Hdd&M is good to –47 F pour point, so the pumping temp is like –27, so to speak. So far my BX has stated un-aided down to -2 and started fine. It does make weird noises like any diesel.

Now the Kubota manual states that anything below 32 is a 10w-30 or SAE 30 I think. I am at work and do not know 100% . The manual does not address the synthetics issue but a synthetic will most times protect better at high temp (TBN, Four-Ball Wear Test….etc) then most group 3’s and up. These oils will also have a better pour point then any dino out there. I say most sicne some group 3 oils might or might not. Anyone in a group 4 or 5 will be better. That is why you are paying more. That is why I always state "you get what you pay for". I know some people have a huge problem with that but a $6 per qt fluid does not even compare to a $1.40 per qt fluid.

Example, a Dino 10-30 will have a higher pour point then any Amsoil oil..or Redline etc.

To close, that is how I understand it; but then again I am only a lonely mech engineer.

 

[r0GuE]

Awesome! Stated that well, even I can understand!
Do you think if I put synth in a Jeep (inline 6 cyl - old design) that it would increase gas milage much? I had never planned to go synth in the Jeep as it seems to burn dirty and blacken up the oil, so I figure hey, just planb on changing it often. But if it got me a few MPG, it may be worth it. Plus, avoiding wear on the engin saves $$$ in te long run.

 

[gsxr1100]

Well r0GuE , that is where I have a weird belief. So far in only 10-years of using synthetics, I have never seen any improvements so to speak. But then again I install synthetic from day one or mile 0000. I will get more consumption of oil when new till rings seat, but as a trade off I get less wear from the start.

I know most owners of my car get around 23 while I get 24.2 MPG in the city. So take that for what it is worth. Maybe due to synthetics or not. I do not know.

I personally feel if you are gonna use a synthetic just for MPG increase, you might or might not make the money back.

Example, lets say you got a 4.16% increase in MPG. That is going from 23 to 24 MPG. So over 7,500 miles it would save you approx 14-gallons of fuel. Now at $2.00 per gallon that is $28.

So now lets talk oil. Lets say it holds 5-quarts of oil at $4.00 per qt. S0 that is $20. Now add (1) oil filter at lets say, $9. So that is $29 total for oil and filter for 7,500 miles. So it would cost you $1 for the synthetic oil and filter over 7,500 miles. The only way you would make the money back, when using MPG only , would be to run the oil longer.

In the jeep you could use a "cheaper" synthetic and go from there...maybe Or try a better filter then what you have now. Or maybe a better oil. It is hard to tell since each engine burns different.

 

[GregMVT]

Mike, the only flaw I see in your logic is that you have not deducted the cost of the one or posssibly two dino oil changes that would have to be made in that 7,500 miles. You would need to subtract that cost from the $29 to get the true additional cost of switching to synthetic oil. It does show a stronger reason to switch. As a controller at a small private college I am used to looking at the bigger picture /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[gsxr1100]

true that would be around $10 for oil and filter (dino oil and maybe an AC filter). I like to do thing worst case since it should not be worse.

If you want to be picky show me a group 4 or 5 oil that is only $5 per qt? Not gonna find it. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif So it is a trade off per say. But we can also add tax, shipping , man power to do it, tools, time, etc. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif. I am doing a "approx" since his jeep could hold more then 5 qts and need a larger filter costing more. So it is a wash and the $29 is pretty darn close. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Next, you should not need to do shorter drains unless towing or severe stops ets. 99% of cars are 7,500 drains. I have never done less then 7,500 mile changes since 1994 (old 5.0 days). If the dino oil needs draing you are using like group 1 or maybe 2 oil. Spend about $0.30 more on some grp 3 oil..

As I still go to a private college, and so far they never look at the pictures unless it is about raising the tution. Ours go ups from $325 to $350 per credit next year. College is about business / $$$$, not learning and over priced at that. I say that since in private colleges most times the students do not fail since they "do not slap the hand that feed thems". I wish my paycheck went up as much as their prices. It would be more then my std 4% (if I get that).