TC-29 starting problems

[JohnPatzer]

My TC-29 sometimes will not start. The Ignition light comes on but no start. A click sound in the switch is it. Sometimes it starts, sometimes it doesn't.


I have had this same problem off on on for several years.


I have replaced the battery, the battery cables and have had the starter and alternator tested.

Any suggestions?



Thank you.

John P.

 

[DocHeb]

Welcome to TBN.

The Ignition Switches on the Boomer line of tractors have been a recurring weak link. A trip through the archives using the Search Funtion might provide your definitive answer.

 

[jbrumberg]

JohnPatzer:

Welcome to TBN and the Blue Forum ! Although I have not yet have any troubles with my ignition switch yet, I agree with DocHeb as to researching out solutions to your intermittent problem. As a start you could spray the internals of your switch with a drying/cleaning agent. Jay

 

[dqdave1]

After the ign. switch; make sure all interlock safety switch connections are tight and corrosion free. If you remove a terminal, clean it and use dielectric grease on it. Something CNH forgot. Remember that there are many safety switches. pto (mid and rear); range selection, seat and others depending on year and model.

 

[SteveInMD]

The safety interlock switches are the same circuit that closes the starter solenoid. If any of the switches are dirty you end up with low voltage at the solenoid. There is a service bulletin to add a relay and separate this into two circuits. This brings voltage straight to the starter solenoid when the relay closes.

 

[jinman]

My TC-29 sometimes will not start. The Ignition light comes on but no start. A click sound in the switch is it. Sometimes it starts, sometimes it doesn't.

I have had this same problem off on on for several years.

I have replaced the battery, the battery cables and have had the starter and alternator tested..

John, you've just described the very worst kind of troubleshooting problem there is. The intermittent problem that comes and goes is just impossible to fix without "easter egging" the problem. If it continues, I'd look at the neutral start relay or the ignition switch. It also very well could be the starter solenoid and not show up when it was tested. Unless you can get a hard and repeatable failure long enough to troubleshoot, anybody's guess is just a guess. You sound like you've done all the right things with the battery terminals and cables. It's probably dirty contacts on the switch, relay, or burned solenoid contacts.

When it doesn't start, does it repeat only a few times or as many as 10 attempts? If it repeats for several attempts, at least you have a shot at troubleshooting if you have a meter handy and somebody to help. You really need a meter, a schematic, and a helper. I don't know about you, but when I have a problem, it always seems like I don't have any of those things, much less all of them. Good luck!

 

[henryjacobjosh]

If you hear a clicking, I would doubt that the interlock switches are not made. I think if any safety switches were open then you would have nothing. Did you try to tap the starter solenoid with a bar or small hammer when it won't start?

 

[daTeacha]

You said the clicking sound was from the switch -- is it a light or heavy kind of sound? Does it really come from the switch, or is there something else clicking as the switch closes? The more descriptive and directive you can be, the better able these guys will be to help out, but again, it's gonna be a lot of by guess and by golly until you find the right thing. If it's a heavy clicking that isn't right from the switch, I would look at the starter solenoid, but if it's a lightweight mechanical click like a door lock, I would suspect the switch itself. Good Luck and keep us posted about what you try and what success you have.

 

[Soundguy]

The safety interlock switches are the same circuit that closes the starter solenoid. If any of the switches are dirty you end up with low voltage at the solenoid. There is a service bulletin to add a relay and separate this into two circuits. This brings voltage straight to the starter solenoid when the relay closes.

Wow.. elegant fix.. have the safety switches merely power the low load relay coil.. then let it's single contacts power the starter solenoid.

should have been like that in t he first place!

soundguy

 

[AlanB]

My TC-29 sometimes will not start. The Ignition light comes on but no start. A click sound in the switch is it. Sometimes it starts, sometimes it doesn't.


I have had this same problem off on on for several years.


I have replaced the battery, the battery cables and have had the starter and alternator tested.

Any suggestions?



Thank you.

John P.

Okay guys, start laughing if you will, but I bet there are others out there that do not realize this either.

Drove me nuts on my 1925 till I figured out what the problem was, and no, my dealers, nor my owners manual covered it.

And I am still not positive I have this right.

When you grab the key, and turn it all the way right, Holding your hand "neuteral" (as in not pressing in on the key) I bet it clicks, and that is your preheat setting. It will "click" lights (to include the glo plug light) will all illuminate and the starter will not engage.

Now, release the key, regrab the key, push in, towards the dash, and turn it all the way right again and your starter will engage.

At least that is the way mine works, and it sure is not how it is explained in my owners manual.

Hope it helps, sorry if you have a totally different setup and this has no relevance to your tractor.

Oh, on edit, on my switch, you can feel the springload of the key when you push in, and I was usually pushing in and not realizing it, which made it maddening to sort out what was happening.

 

[SteveInMD]

Below is a post from Radiopoor that may apply here. It gives you the part numbers for the items needed to separate the safety interlock circuit from the starter pinion circuit. (No, this does not eliminate the safety switches. It just helps to assure the pinion gets full voltage).

From Radiopoor...

This sounds almost the the "DX33 Starting Problem" post so I thought I would post my reply here too. I went to my Dealer yesterday and asked about the Service Bulletin mike10 mentioned and they printed the page off for me. The "Root Cause" on it says " Insufficient voltage at the starter solenoid to extend starter pinion as well as close contacts between the starter motor and battery".

These are the CIH part numbers listed in the bulletin:

1 30A Relay 86529089
1 Relay Base 245731C1
4 Terminal 225077C1

It says to procure the following items locally: ring style connector, 14 gauge wire & female spade connector.

I was just going to replace the switch but decided to do this too, then maybe I will not have to deal with this "no crank" problem again.

Hope this is helpfull.

Ron"

 

[erosol]

I had the switch replaced on mine, still the same problem. Then the dealer said there wasn't enough voltage getting to the starter solenoid, so they placed a relay between the starter wires. I hasn't had a problem starting in two years now.

 

[CBox]

JohnPatzer,

I also fought the intermittent starting / clicking problem as you described. As others have said, if you do some research you will find lots of info on this very topic.

After nearly two years of occasional frustration, I installed the relay fix as SteveInMD mentioned and it has COMPLETELY solved my problem. I also installed an Odyssey battery and did away with the acid corrosion on the radiator and battery bracket as well.

I believe if you find the post DX33 Starting Problem, mike10 has some nice pictures and instructions that helped me greatly. It may sound challenging, but I recommend installing the relay and solving your problem.

CBox

 

[FarmallAcres]

Below is a post from Radiopoor that may apply here. It gives you the part numbers for the items needed to separate the safety interlock circuit from the starter pinion circuit. (No, this does not eliminate the safety switches. It just helps to assure the pinion gets full voltage).

From Radiopoor...

This sounds almost the the "DX33 Starting Problem" post so I thought I would post my reply here too. I went to my Dealer yesterday and asked about the Service Bulletin mike10 mentioned and they printed the page off for me. The "Root Cause" on it says " Insufficient voltage at the starter solenoid to extend starter pinion as well as close contacts between the starter motor and battery".

These are the CIH part numbers listed in the bulletin:

1 30A Relay 86529089
1 Relay Base 245731C1
4 Terminal 225077C1

It says to procure the following items locally: ring style connector, 14 gauge wire & female spade connector.

I was just going to replace the switch but decided to do this too, then maybe I will not have to deal with this "no crank" problem again.

Hope this is helpfull.

Ron"

I contacted 3 NH dealers and NH in Wisconsin before I found the service bulletin with install steps for starter relay. Purchased the relay with wiring harness and fuse holder for less than $5 at local auto parts. Will install relay next week and post my results. I tried new swith for $105 but did not work. My dealer wanted to replace starter but this discussion board led me to try relay.

 

[Soundguy]

Yep.. I love dealers shotgun parts approach... IE.. systematically start replacing all the aprts inthe circuit, starting at the most expensive.. till you get down tot he 4-10$ of wire and find out it was a bad 20 cent crimp connector.. and not the 800$ worth of starter and assorted parts you sold the customer...

soundguy

 

[forteatwo]

What about simply bypassing the entire safety circuit by wiring the ignition switch directly to the starter. I asked my dealer if he would do that on my TC 29D and of course he said no, but offered to show me how to do it stating it would take about five minutes. I am unconvinced there are significant safety issues but maybe someone can enlighten me. It was my understanding the clutch would still have to be engaged for the starter to activate but the gear shift lever would not need to be in neutral. Which is to say, the tractor would operate just like a manual transmission car. Feel free to address the safety issue as I would not want to advocate anything inherently risky. But this seems the best option for avoiding future problems with what strikes me as a poorly engineered safety circuit with too many vulnerable connections. While the relay option is a good one, one assumes it will not work if the safety circuit is open. In addition, if the voltage drops across the safety loop, one can only conclude the circuit is about to fail and we are back to a no-start.

 

[SteveInMD]

I contacted 3 NH dealers and NH in Wisconsin before I found the service bulletin with install steps for starter relay. Purchased the relay with wiring harness and fuse holder for less than $5 at local auto parts. Will install relay next week and post my results. I tried new swith for $105 but did not work. My dealer wanted to replace starter but this discussion board led me to try relay.

Is there any change you can scan a copy of the service bulletin and post it here or PM it to me?

 

[thclimer]

Is there any change you can scan a copy of the service bulletin and post it here or PM it to me?

I'd like to see it as well

 

[Soundguy]

Big difference in the power needed to energize a small relay coil, vs a starter solenoid. remember.. voltage drop across a connection will be a function of current in the circuit.

RE-read your message.. you are advocating bypassing the "'entire safety circuit by wiring the ignition switch directly to the starter" ( your words ).. We can assume you meant to say directly to the starter solenoid.

In that case.. a clutch / tranny neutral .. or pto switch will not be in effect.. thus activating the key switch will start the tractor.. in gear, clutch not pushed, pto engaged... thus.. if you were not expecting it.. or started it from the ground.. you may be run'd over and cut up depending on the circumstances.

lets not take leaps and bounds BACKWARDS in safety... ford came up with the tranny interlocked start swithc back with the early N series... no reason to delve back to 1930's technology just to get around a circuit that is otherwise 'fixable'.

soundguy

What about simply bypassing the entire safety circuit by wiring the ignition switch directly to the starter. I asked my dealer if he would do that on my TC 29D and of course he said no, but offered to show me how to do it stating it would take about five minutes. I am unconvinced there are significant safety issues but maybe someone can enlighten me. It was my understanding the clutch would still have to be engaged for the starter to activate but the gear shift lever would not need to be in neutral. Which is to say, the tractor would operate just like a manual transmission car. Feel free to address the safety issue as I would not want to advocate anything inherently risky. But this seems the best option for avoiding future problems with what strikes me as a poorly engineered safety circuit with too many vulnerable connections. While the relay option is a good one, one assumes it will not work if the safety circuit is open. In addition, if the voltage drops across the safety loop, one can only conclude the circuit is about to fail and we are back to a no-start.

 

[Jsheds]

Do a search for 'TC33da starting problems' in this forum from about last october. I posted pictures and the instructions I received from my local dealer on installing the relay.
Jim


Here's a link, if it works;
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/nh-owning-operating/108671-tc33da-starting-problems.html