Tesla semi

[lostcreekranch]

Drew;

Another “point of view” on electric vehicles from Jerry Reynolds.

Stop the Electric Car Insanity

 

[vvanders]

While I appreciate the article I wish the author had done a bit more research, a lot of these are straightforward questions that can be answered with just a little digging.

[Range anxiety, the fear of getting stranded, which happened to me with the very first electric car I ever reviewed. This is a real fear for some people, especially if an electric car is all you own. Today, most can go 60-100 miles before needing to be charged, with a couple of vehicles getting between 200-300 miles.]

I'm pretty sure we're going to see 250mi+ as the standard moving forward with the Bolt, Model 3.

[What effect does weather have on my range? Hot and cold weather can have a very adverse affect on battery life.]

~10% give or take actual air density. This is in sub-freezing temperatures at highways speeds. Yes you have to plan for it a bit but not a problem with the answer to the next question.

[Chargers. Other than home, how many chargers are going to be available? Will they be the quick chargers, or the ones that take many hours? What will it cost me to charge my car when it is at home?]

If you have a Tesla, tons. Specifically 18,000 by the end of 2018. This is one area where I think Tesla dominates other companies and I agree that without this you don't have nearly as compelling of a vehicle.

[How will we ever dispose of all the batteries once they start going bad? How much can be recycled from a battery pack, if any, and will they just end up filling landfills?]

Easily, recycle or reuse them in stationary power. Tesla has been doing this profitably since '11 Tesla's Closed Loop Battery Recycling Program | Tesla .

[What happens to our already poor roads and highways? All these electric cars will cut down on gas consumption. Today, 18.4 cents per gallon of gas, and 24.4 cents per gallon of diesel go straight to the Federal Highway Trust Fund. There is also on average 30 more cents per gallon of gas and diesel that goes to state and local roads.]

This is already getting addressed. Here in WA we have a $150 EV tax on title registration. That was actually more than I used to pay in gas tax with my previous vehicle. This isn't a hard problem to solve, EVs should be paying their fair share(or more) of the road tax.

 

[17 Oaks]

I can think of few things that are subsidized by the Federal Govt that make sense.

Then we have the TAX secret, YEA, electric cars don't pay any taxes vs 18 cents per gal on diesel and 24 cents per gal on gasoline. Anyone who think the FEDS don't know this is living in a dream world, Fuel taxes make up over 90 percent of total highway tax revenue @ $38 Billion per year >

The FEDS are gonna get their pound of flesh sooner or later and that is a SAFE BET!

 

[Redneck in training]

I am not buying that claim.

It is claims like this that cause the wall between ecar proponents and the status quo to get larger and stronger.

Mining all those precious metals for batteries and windings produces a lot of carbon emissions.

Are you saying that producing an ICE car is a clean process?

 

[Redneck in training]

Where does the coal used to produce the Ecar's energy factor in? Or do we only take into the account the end product pollution?

Where is the oil come from? The truth is that ecar is about 5 times more efficient than ice.

 

[toppop52]

Really!!!
Got the list of reputable professional folks backing this claim?

Got the list that proves the EV痴 win?

 

[toppop52]

Paris Says Au Revoir to Gas and Diesel Cars by 23 | Automobile Magazine

the French never were very sensible. Well, one will have to buy their Chiron in another city I suppose

I think they are going to blame degradation of the Mona Lisa on air pollution...and maybe they are right.

I bet the gas station owners in Paris are thrilled about this. Talk about reinventing your business, though there will always be
repair work.

It seems radical now, but who knows, might be academic by then.

 

[toppop52]

While I appreciate the article I wish the author had done a bit more research, a lot of these are straightforward questions that can be answered with just a little digging.

[Range anxiety, the fear of getting stranded, which happened to me with the very first electric car I ever reviewed. This is a real fear for some people, especially if an electric car is all you own. Today, most can go 60-100 miles before needing to be charged, with a couple of vehicles getting between 200-300 miles.]

I'm pretty sure we're going to see 250mi+ as the standard moving forward with the Bolt, Model 3.

[What effect does weather have on my range? Hot and cold weather can have a very adverse affect on battery life.]

~10% give or take actual air density. This is in sub-freezing temperatures at highways speeds. Yes you have to plan for it a bit but not a problem with the answer to the next question.

[Chargers. Other than home, how many chargers are going to be available? Will they be the quick chargers, or the ones that take many hours? What will it cost me to charge my car when it is at home?]

If you have a Tesla, tons. Specifically 18,000 by the end of 2018. This is one area where I think Tesla dominates other companies and I agree that without this you don't have nearly as compelling of a vehicle.

[How will we ever dispose of all the batteries once they start going bad? How much can be recycled from a battery pack, if any, and will they just end up filling landfills?]

Easily, recycle or reuse them in stationary power. Tesla has been doing this profitably since '11 Tesla's Closed Loop Battery Recycling Program | Tesla .

[What happens to our already poor roads and highways? All these electric cars will cut down on gas consumption. Today, 18.4 cents per gallon of gas, and 24.4 cents per gallon of diesel go straight to the Federal Highway Trust Fund. There is also on average 30 more cents per gallon of gas and diesel that goes to state and local roads.]

This is already getting addressed. Here in WA we have a $150 EV tax on title registration. That was actually more than I used to pay in gas tax with my previous vehicle. This isn't a hard problem to solve, EVs should be paying their fair share(or more) of the road tax.

That doesn’t address the need for taxpayer funded subsidies, the extra weight wearing road surfaces, the danger in accidents, and nobody has yet answered the carbon footprint, cradle to grave question.

 

[toppop52]

Where is the oil come from? The truth is that ecar is about 5 times more efficient than ice.

Show us the proof, or it’s just claims.

 

[vvanders]

That doesn稚 address the need for taxpayer funded subsidies, the extra weight wearing road surfaces, the danger in accidents, and nobody has yet answered the carbon footprint, cradle to grave question.

No one's screaming about the oil subsidies that exist either if we want to start talking about those. Just gas production alone was on the order of 10B(yes billion with a B) in 2010 and 5B in 2013. U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

Got a citation for danger in accidents? Tesla has the highest safety rating of any passenger vehicle.

Road wear is no different than a half-ton pickup, unless you're telling me modern infrastructure can't handle more trucks on the road(our 1500 Eco Diesel and Tesla weight near the same).

Carbon footprint isn't too hard to figure out. The only substantial difference between a traditional car and EV is the battery pack/motor. Here's a study that finds battery impact is less than 5% of total impact of vehicle and EVs outstrip ICE by a pretty wide margin: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/es903729a

To put it in other words, if you get 100k mi from the lifetime of a car the difference in battery production is going to have to be the same as burning 3,300+ gallons of gas at 30mpg. I just don't see how that gets anywhere close to battery production as lithium mining is pretty low impact(mostly salt pools) and aluminum/copper production is pretty well understood.

 

[Egon]

About 5 to 1. ICE car produces (all included) about five times more polution per life of the car than ecar. Ecars are quiet, no more rumbling exhausts.

Did you say quiet??
Will Harley make an electric bike with a throttle control noise generating system?

 

[Egon]

Got the list that proves the EV痴 win?

Nope!

I didn't make reference to any sources so why should I have a list?

 

[houstonscott]

Where is the oil come from? The truth is that ecar is about 5 times more efficient than ice.

I think if you try you'll find your EV gets 1-2 miles per gallon of fuel used to charge it... Most efficient vehicle on road are high pressure diesels.

 

[houstonscott]

Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

What a mess.

 

[flusher]

This adjustment in personnel was coming and was completely predictable after Tesla bought SolarCity. All corporate mergers experience this when trying to integrate two management structures and remove the inevitable duplications produced by the merger. The only surprise for me was that it didn't occur earlier and that the size of the staff reduction was relatively small in number. BTW the Tesla shareholders overwhelming approved the acquisition when it was done in Nov 2016.

 

[lostcreekranch]

Did you say quiet??
Will Harley make an electric bike with a throttle control noise generating system?

Potato, potato, potato, potato, potato.

 

[wagne223]

Are you saying that producing an ICE car is a clean process?

No sir, not at all.

What I'm saying is, I don't believe that an equivalent ICE car is 5 times more a polluter then an ecar.

When accounting for production.

I also understand that those "pass through" emissions are tough to measure.

 

[vvanders]

No sir, not at all.

What I'm saying is, I don't believe that an equivalent ICE car is 5 times more a polluter then an ecar.

When accounting for production.

I also understand that those "pass through" emissions are tough to measure.

So this diagram from the study I linked earlier puts ICE pollution at 25% MFG, 75% Operation (40% / 160%, from bottom figure).

Battery production all-up as 12% (15% / 160%) of an ICE's footprint.

Assuming you get your energy from a clean source(hydro, solar, etc) instead of traditional natural gas power production as listed in the article you'd see EVs as 55% / 160% so about 1/3 less emissions than traditional vehicle.

I'd agree with you that it's not 5x, but that's certainly no small drop either. Add that with less maintenance, cheaper to operate and 100% torque from 0 RPM I see EVs getting pretty compelling within the next 10-15 years.

 

[wagne223]

So this diagram from the study I linked earlier puts ICE pollution at 25% MFG, 75% Operation (40% / 160%, from bottom figure).

Battery production all-up as 12% (15% / 160%) of an ICE's footprint.

Assuming you get your energy from a clean source(hydro, solar, etc) instead of traditional natural gas power production as listed in the article you'd see EVs as 55% / 160% so about 1/3 less emissions than traditional vehicle.

I'd agree with you that it's not 5x, but that's certainly no small drop either. Add that with less maintenance, cheaper to operate and 100% torque from 0 RPM I see EVs getting pretty compelling within the next 10-15 years.

Now this statement I can agree with!

The trick is getting more grid power from non petroleum sources.
That would be better all the way around.

 

[TemporaryKubotaOwnerMark]

The trick is getting more grid power from non petroleum sources.
That would be better all the way around.

Yes, it would be better. Right now it's a pipe dream. There is nothing on the horizon that is going to make a dent in our current structure, and with the mindless greenies winning the war against nukes, it's only going to get worse.