The 1964 MF-135 diesel is overheating

[Farmwithjunk]

I'm not sure I've ever seen a ford or ferguson type tractor 'jump' into gear unless it was being helped by a pants leg or an arm reaching for a tool.

If it bothers ya.. jack the rear axles and put them on secure stands/cribbing... ( not on jacks alone.. )

Internal hose colapse on suction side is possible,, though lower on my list of things to normally check.. however in your case.. you are plowing thru the 'normal' overheat reasons.. so checking the hoses is in order.

post back what you find.


Soundguy

Take the 1-2-3-4-R shifter AND H-L shifter out of gear. Odds of BOTH jumping in to gear are astronomical. Never seen EITHER jump in to gear. Non-syncro shifting doesn't jump into gear without help generally.

I chased a "hot engine" for months once upon a time, just to find out I had a bad sending unit AND a bad gauge. Is the engine REALLY overheating?

 

[flusher]

Take the 1-2-3-4-R shifter AND H-L shifter out of gear. Odds of BOTH jumping in to gear are astronomical. Never seen EITHER jump in to gear. Non-syncro shifting doesn't jump into gear without help generally.

I chased a "hot engine" for months once upon a time, just to find out I had a bad sending unit AND a bad gauge. Is the engine REALLY overheating?

I think it is since the engine burps coolant out of the radiator overflow. The gauge and sending unit are new (got them from the Yesterdays Tractors website). I have an extra new temp gauge/sending unit I can try just to eliminate the faulty gauge factor.

Need to get a new petcock or plug to replace the one I butchered while removing from the block.

I checked the oil level in the 135 and it seems a little high. I changed the oil as part of normal maintenance before starting on this overheating adventure.

I found an overheating troubleshooting guide on the Web at

Perkins Power - Fault Finding Guide for Diesel Engines

It implies that overfilling the engine oil sump can cause engine overheating. Why would too much oil cause overheating? Are diesels in general bothered by this? Are Perkins diesels in particular sensitive to an extra half quart or so of oil in the crankcase? I'm using Delo 400 30W for diesels, the same stuff the previous owner used.

I'll install the engine block petcock (or plug), re-attach the old hoses, fill with at least 10 quarts of coolant and then run the engine. If it still overheats, I'll drain a little oil from the engine and repeat. If it still overheats, I'll replace the bottom radiator hose. If it still overheats, I'll probably get the radiator rodded.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I think it is since the engine burps coolant out of the radiator overflow. The gauge and sending unit are new (got them from the Yesterdays Tractors website). I have an extra new temp gauge/sending unit I can try just to eliminate the faulty gauge factor.

Need to get a new petcock or plug to replace the one I butchered while removing from the block.

I checked the oil level in the 135 and it seems a little high. I changed the oil as part of normal maintenance before starting on this overheating adventure.

I found an overheating troubleshooting guide on the Web at

Perkins Power - Fault Finding Guide for Diesel Engines

It implies that overfilling the engine oil sump can cause engine overheating. Why would too much oil cause overheating? Are diesels in general bothered by this? Are Perkins diesels in particular sensitive to an extra half quart or so of oil in the crankcase? I'm using Delo 400 30W for diesels, the same stuff the previous owner used.

I'll install the engine block petcock (or plug), re-attach the old hoses, fill with at least 10 quarts of coolant and then run the engine. If it still overheats, I'll drain a little oil from the engine and repeat. If it still overheats, I'll replace the bottom radiator hose. If it still overheats, I'll probably get the radiator rodded.

I've never heard that about overfilling engine oil. I do know my 150 leaks a few drops out of SOMEWHERE if it's the least bit over "full". (Oil appears around the tach drive connection)

Have you replaced the grill? I seem to recall yours missing part of the grill screen. I bought a set of aftermarket screens for my 2440 Deere a few years back. It had smaller, and fewer holes. In the hottest of summer, it'd run a bit hot. I finally went back to the oem screens.

 

[flusher]

I've never heard that about overfilling engine oil. I do know my 150 leaks a few drops out of SOMEWHERE if it's the least bit over "full". (Oil appears around the tach drive connection)

Have you replaced the grill? I seem to recall yours missing part of the grill screen. I bought a set of aftermarket screens for my 2440 Deere a few years back. It had smaller, and fewer holes. In the hottest of summer, it'd run a bit hot. I finally went back to the oem screens.

The grill and all of the sheet metal on the front of the 135 have not been reinstalled. The old grill was crumpled in, I suppose, an encounter with an olive tree in the previous owner's orchard. I have a replacement grill but it's not installed yet. I'm running the 135 in hot rod mode right now.

I've noticed oil seepage around the tach drive connection on the 135 also. Not a big deal.

Also checked the muffler to be sure it's reinstalled correctly (it is). I rotated the muffler from horizontal to vertical since I want to use the 135 in the hay field, not in the orchard. Apparently, blockage in the exhaust system can cause overheating. I suppose a muffler installed backwards could cause blockage.

Also need to check the air cleaner because blockage in the air intake manifold apparently can cause overheating. I replaced the air filter elements a few weeks ago and am pretty sure that there's good airflow into the engine. But it doesn't hurt to check.

Also took a look at the coolant system bypass hose. It feels pretty soft. I'll replace it and see what happens.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

As a precaution, last week, I replaced all the hoses and the fan belt on my Massey. 3 of 4 hoses were over 15 years old by memory. As much as I'm using it these days, it just seemed like it was time. For the last few years, the temp gauge showed halfway between the "normal" operating temp indicated by a red dot, and the red zone showing overheating, under normal use on a warm day. I keep a close watch on my anti-freeze, testing it for acidity also. But while I was doing the hoses, it just seemed like a good time to replace the coolant. (and both drain petcocks) I use Prestone. I mixed 40/60 water/anti-freeze, added 12 oz. of Fram coolant treatment, and put 'er back in the field bush hogging on a 97 degree day. And you know what? It ran ALL DAY spot on that "normal" red dot. It ran cooler. The old coolant still test's good. I kept it jugged for emergency use. But new coolant made a difference. You wouldn't have convinced me that was possible BEFORE I changed it. There's a remote possibility that the new hoses had an effect, maybe even the fan belt. Who knows...

Does your 135 have a 2-blade fan or a 4-blade model?

 

[flusher]

As a precaution, last week, I replaced all the hoses and the fan belt on my Massey. 3 of 4 hoses were over 15 years old by memory. As much as I'm using it these days, it just seemed like it was time. For the last few years, the temp gauge showed halfway between the "normal" operating temp indicated by a red dot, and the red zone showing overheating, under normal use on a warm day. I keep a close watch on my anti-freeze, testing it for acidity also. But while I was doing the hoses, it just seemed like a good time to replace the coolant. (and both drain petcocks) I use Prestone. I mixed 40/60 water/anti-freeze, added 12 oz. of Fram coolant treatment, and put 'er back in the field bush hogging on a 97 degree day. And you know what? It ran ALL DAY spot on that "normal" red dot. It ran cooler. The old coolant still test's good. I kept it jugged for emergency use. But new coolant made a difference. You wouldn't have convinced me that was possible BEFORE I changed it. There's a remote possibility that the new hoses had an effect, maybe even the fan belt. Who knows...

Does your 135 have a 2-blade fan or a 4-blade model?

The 135 has the 4-blade fan.

I unpacked the spare temp gauge that I have. It's calibrated in degrees F and C instead of the Cold-Normal-Hot scale that I have now. I'll swap gauges and see what happens.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, the temp gauge acted funny prior to the engine overheating. It read cold until the thermostat opened and then the pointer jumped instantly up to a low normal reading and continued to rise into the hot zone. Wonder if this means that the bypass hose is blocked or collapsed. I'll remove all the hoses tomorrow and check for blockages.

I'm learning more that I expected I'd need to know about this cooling system. On the upside, trouble shooting this problem gets me in the mood to tackle another vintage tractor. Still looking for a JD 3020 in my locale. There's one on eBay now in Elk Grove, south of Sacramento, but it has a cracked block. Occasionally a 3020 comes on the market in the San Joaquin Valley. But I've been warned to be careful of tractors from that neck of the woods because of the very sandy and dusty conditions in that part of the Great Central Valley and because of the high hours (>7000 ) typical of those tractors.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

While 4020 parts are as common as bugs on a bumper, 3020 parts are a bit harder to find and a bit more expensive because of their low numbers. A good friend bought a 3020 powershift w/ side console a couple years back. It had the common 3020 problem of a failed counterbalancer shaft. He tried finding a complete engine and gave up after a while. A Deere dealer near here put him on to a 4 cylinder Deere "industrial" engine that was a bolt-in replacement. It was a replacement for a back-hoe. The new engine is turbo-ed and 100 hp. Makes for one mean 3020.

 

[Soundguy]

Nice.. a 135 for 1500$ and some sweat...

3x that much for one around here.. minimum..

Soundguy

I've got a lead on a 135 Massey with a Perkins gas engine that has a spun main. The gas and diesel Perkins is IDENTICAL. Should be a fairly quick swap. The tractor looks to be in good condition otherwise. Tractor and engine alone (may need a few assorted parts/gaskets/band aides/ect) I'd be going in to this with about $1500 initial investment. A decent 135 diesel sells $4500 to $7000 here. I smell $$$$$.$$

 

[Soundguy]

My sentiments exactly. I've yet to see a manual non synch tranny 'fall' into gear.

I've seen em started in gear various ways.. and I've seent hem pushed into gear by reaching over, or climbing off. Ditto again on the H/L shifter... odds of both 'falling' or getting knocked into gear at the same time are of fthe charts.

I agree on the hot engine issue. He's running out of 'reasons' for why it would / could be overheating, and is now into the 'grasping for straws' area ..

I'm eager to find out what the final verdict is..

Soundguy

Take the 1-2-3-4-R shifter AND H-L shifter out of gear. Odds of BOTH jumping in to gear are astronomical. Never seen EITHER jump in to gear. Non-syncro shifting doesn't jump into gear without help generally.

I chased a "hot engine" for months once upon a time, just to find out I had a bad sending unit AND a bad gauge. Is the engine REALLY overheating?

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Nice.. a 135 for 1500$ and some sweat...

3x that much for one around here.. minimum..

Soundguy

$1500 at first glance.... But we all know how an old tractor, especially one built with pieces from TWO tractors can be a money pit. As much as anything, the 135 w/ bad engine has nearly new rubber. I'm likely going to swap it to my Massey or my Ford 3000.

And then we get into that age old problem of "once it's done, why sell it?" There's always room for one more in the barn!

Not a lot of profit in hoarding old tractors.