The ROPS Police - fact or fiction?

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   / The ROPS Police - fact or fiction?
  • Thread Starter
#51  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Although I do admit to being a little confused why you didn't simply respond in the thread you referenced.)</font>

Mike,
There have been many such statements made here on TBN. Just go look at any posts in the Customization or Build It Yourself forums that have to do with adding lights to the ROPS. I could have given several recent posts as reference but why waste time just to make a point? Putting a response in each one would give the appearance of hassling posters. But then again, maybe I'll just start being the ROPS Police just to put an end this myth. As a moderator I'll know you'll understand. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
 
   / The ROPS Police - fact or fiction? #52  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">(

<font color="blue"> Aftermarket add-on? I don't think so. </font>
Bad wording on my part. Does subcontracted sound better? )</font>


No subcontracted doesn't sound right either. My ROPS was on my tractor when it came off the asembly line. Yes it was made by someone else but pretty much the whole tractor is made by someone else and assembled by New Holland. But I don't call my New Holland subcontracted. My ROPS even has the New Holland Model number on it along with the New Holland safety sign.

murph
 
   / The ROPS Police - fact or fiction? #53  
I'm late to the party here, as is often the case, but let me interject this bit just to see what the group reaction is -- if anyone is still following this very long thread.

I bought a ROPS for my Kubota B7100 from the dealer. It was built by Kubota for my tractor, which predates the requirement. It came to me in several pieces, the major ones being two roughly S shaped members which bolted to the tractor in the same place as the pivots for the lower links attach. The rod for the lower links goes through the ROPS.

The interesting part is at the top. The two S shaped parts come together over an inner sleeve. There is a bolt on each side that passes through (GASP!) a hole in the ROPS! The bolts are about 3/4 inch diameter and also pass through the inner sleeve, which BTW, didn't fit in place all that well.

Suppose I happen to roll my little beastie. If the ROPS doesn't hold and I get to spend my remaining days in a wheel chair doing all my tractoring here instead of outside, do you suppose Kubota is at fault? Or would it be me since I'm not a certified Kubota tech? What if I hadn't put the thing on there in the first place and just used the tractor as it was originally designed, manufactured, and sold? Would Kubota have any more or less liability?

What it comes down to is simply who can hire the best lawyer. In today's litiguous society, unfortunately, there are shyster lawyers who are out looking for something to sue a big company about. Witness the pathetic attempts to hold gun and amunition manufacturers liable for injuries caused by idiots misusing their products. This was perpetrated not just by individuals, but entire city governments.

I think we are finally seeing the tide begin to turn against those who try to make their fortune by bringing suit against anyone they think has deep pockets. Unfortunately, the days of "welfare by lawsuit" have left a legacy of paranoia among manufacturers, dealers, and service providers with which we all have to deal whenever we interact with those businesses. No one wants to be held responsible for things that are not their fault. Similarly, no one wants to open a door, even a tiny bit, for what could become a class action lawsuit that would cause a business to close its doors. Hence, businesses do all they can to avoid responsibility unless something is clearly their problem.

Contrast all that has been said here with what I went through when replacing the engine in my old Cadet. The replacement engine was a new Kohler unit, installed by my faithful dealer. The engine simply didn't work correctly from the start. Among other things, the head was not flat, causing leakage around the head gasket, the carburetor was defective and needed to be replaced with a new one, and the "cup" by which the driveshaft attaches to the flywheel came unbolted, causing the locator pin to fall behind the flywheel. I spent a year trying to get a working engine in that machine. Kohler was no help, simply telling the dealer to fix it each and every time. In a year, I got about 10 hours use out of it and it spent at least 4 times that much in the shop. I finally asked that it be replaced with a new engine. I went through all the channels. Kohler would not budge. I called them personally, emailed them, etc. No success. I was seriously considering the lawsuit route under the lemon law.

Then, ta-daa, rescue from an unlikely source! My dealer happened to be talking with the Cadet rep and mentioned my situation as a bit of conversation. The Cadet guy told him to replace the defective engine with a new one, at Cub Cadet's expense! This for a 30 plus year old tractor that I had purchased used!

Sometimes, even in the worst of situations, someone steps up and reinforces your faith in humanity. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
   / The ROPS Police - fact or fiction? #54  
My two bits.

First of all a disclaimer...I don't have a warranty. I don't even have a ROPS. But I do have an opinion.

Where do you draw the line? It seems there is a concensus that small holes in the ROPS will not affect the ROPS in any practical way. There also seems to be a concensus that large holes or major cuts or poor welds will drastically affect the integrity of the ROPS. So... Where do you draw the line?

If a company conceded and said that small holes in a ROPS would be acceptable, they would have to define "small". If they defined "small", this thread would then be miles long because we would all be debating if a hole larger than 3/8" (or whatever) is really a risk or not. We would be splitting hairs over something else entirely.

I'm sure that this is at least part of the reason for the "don't modify your ROPS police". It's a whole lot easier to just say "don't modify" than to begin the hair splitting.
 
   / The ROPS Police - fact or fiction? #55  
Making swiss cheese of the ROPS is one thing, but drilling 5/16" holes to mount a light to is not going to do anything. Any engineer could chew any lawyer up on that one. Welding a plate on then drilling thru the place and ropes eliminates the argument also.

I've had many project vehicles at off-road.com that have been HEAVY modified and some have needed major warranty repair. The burden of proof is onthe dealer/OEM to prove that your modification caused the failure.

I have a 2000 Yukon XL that had a Whipple supercharger on it. Tweaked out it was pushing 400 hp when the ABS sensors died. The dealer tried to denied due to the super charger and other mods. A five minute conversation corected that one. Simple exchange, prove it caused the issue or I take you to court and I'll win. Been there a few times.

The Magnuson-Moss law is the protection and it states that no warranty can be denied unless it is proven actions have been taken by the owner that renders the manufacturers design and function inoperatable.

A dealer might charge you for a new ROPS on a trade in, which is piss poor, but they would NEVER be able to deny your warranty.
 
   / The ROPS Police - fact or fiction? #56  
<font color="blue"> As a moderator I'll know you'll understand. </font>
I would understand completely, as long as it's done with tact and a simple desire to enlighten people. In fact, you could make it your signature.

NOTE: MODIFYING YOUR ROPS WILL <font color="red">NOT </font> VOID YOUR <font color="red">TRACTOR WARRANTY</font>.
 
   / The ROPS Police - fact or fiction? #57  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( As a moderator I'll know you'll understand. )</font>

Ahh, signature of the ROPS police. I would like to see an area under the user information for personal titles. I think signature blocks are way restrictive in that modify they the db.

I am NOT the ROPS police
-Mike Z. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
   / The ROPS Police - fact or fiction? #58  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( It's a whole lot easier to just say "don't modify" than to begin the hair splitting. )</font>

I think your right..... In these days, if you were to go to court involving a "saftey issue", where you made any modifications to the saftey device, I believe you'd loose..

Lets say you designed and produced something in which you guaranteed the safty of an individual if he used it correctly... This individual got hurt. Upon inspection, you find that he made a minor modification(no mater how insignificant). Under your testing, the product performed flawlessly. His modification must have causes some weakness, right... Before you answer that, it might cost you $10million if you loose this case....Now, what would you say?

Not saying its completely right, but why not fabricate clamps to go around the ROPS? This way you dont change the integrity of the design and you get your accessories... I wouldnt chance it if I bought the ROPS or tractor with ROPS, its like cutting the seatbelts in the car.... If you built your own from scratch, that would naturally be different, but I would remove it before selling the tractor.

Again if you are told that your ROPS modification effected your engines waranty, FIND A NEW DEALER ......
 
   / The ROPS Police - fact or fiction? #59  
( Aftermarket add-on? I don't think so.
Bad wording on my part. Does subcontracted sound better? )


No subcontracted doesn't sound right either. My ROPS was on my tractor when it came off the asembly line. <font color="red"> Yes it was made by someone else </font>


Then which PC phrase would the group prefer? Outsourced, hecho en México
 
   / The ROPS Police - fact or fiction? #60  
Mike,

He'd need the COPS theme song to play along with his sig.

"Bad Boys, Bad Boys, whatcha gonna do, Bad Boys......."

ron
 
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