Thermal Lancing (yikes!!)

[Norm W]

Is the pin hardened? If it isn't you could use a mag drill to get a hole through the middle. A half inch hole is enough. You might have to tack weld a plate to the beam to hold the mag base. With the hole you can use a standard Oxy/fuel cutting torch to split the pin. I had to do the same thing with the angle pins on a Cat D4 blade. They were about 2.250" in diameter. The previous owner had driven in pins and they had rusted in place. A 20 ton jack wouldn't move them.

 

[BrokenTrack]

I have never heard it called "thermal lancing" before, as we always called it "Carbon Arc Gouging." Either way, it works really well, and is quick and easy, as long as a person can get away from the sparks. Gouging overhead, or into a corner can sometimes suck.

It is such a versatile skill however, that we teach the process to our students. Most have never welded before they came into the program, so it is not a difficult skill to master.

 

[pycoed]

Aaahh! There's the trouble with language: if you persist in calling a "split pin" a cotter pin, when you come across a REAL cotter pin, you don't have a name for it!

Bloody colonials!:laughing:
( Happy Independence Day tomorrow BTW:thumbsup

 

[Richard]

Is the pin hardened? If it isn't you could use a mag drill to get a hole through the middle.

I presume it's hardened. We had a mag drill on it and the pin just laughed at us. He had used same drill on the steel of one of the stabilizers (call it 1/2" thick) and I was amazed at how it went through "like butter" and it barely scratched this pin. Actually, that's about all it did was scratch it. You could see the circular scratch and that's all.

 

[Richard]

Aaahh! There's the trouble with language: if you persist in calling a "split pin" a cotter pin, when you come across a REAL cotter pin, you don't have a name for it!

Bloody colonials!:laughing:
( Happy Independence Day tomorrow BTW:thumbsup

Since this is a Brit machine (JCB), would that have been correct to you for me to call it a cotter pin?

 

[Richard]

I have never heard it called "thermal lancing" before, as we always called it "Carbon Arc Gouging." Either way, it works really well, and is quick and easy, as long as a person can get away from the sparks. Gouging overhead, or into a corner can sometimes suck.

It is such a versatile skill however, that we teach the process to our students. Most have never welded before they came into the program, so it is not a difficult skill to master.

Makes me wonder how easy it might be to find someone that's done it.

I'm not against buying the torch. My engineer guy has the oxygen tank (that I'd be happy to pay to refill).... have a welders helmet/gloves but not really the nuclear fire suit that this might call for.

So, would perhaps be more efficient to pay someone to bring their stuff out, burn it, pay them and they're done.

How do I find that person in the yellow pages?

 

[Oldpath05]

If file wont scratch it then it probably got harden from all the heating, if cobalt drill bit wont drill it then the only other drill bit to use is expensive carbide drill bit. I think lancing is still a good option.

 

[mrmikey]

I have never heard it called "thermal lancing" before, as we always called it "Carbon Arc Gouging.

Actually it's two totally different processes.

Carbon arc gouging, air arcing, gouging uses a ....surprise LOL...carbon rod 1/4" + or so in diameter. You need a welder with lots of amps and a compressor with lots of air. You hold an arc between the item you're gouging and the carbon rod which turns the metal molten. The air is directed in the area of the arc and blows the molten metal away. Big shower of sparks which travel a significant distance. More commonly used for backgouging welds or removing broken/cracked welds to get to good material.

A thermal lance, slice torch, is an exothermic process, once you get metal rod hot enough, you feed pure oxygen to it and it will be self sustaining i.e. burning. That's why people using torches in a shipyard for example and called burners not cutters. You can do the same thing with an acetylene torch if you have a piece of clean plate. Start the cut and turn off the acetylene and oxygen, just using the cutting oxygen and you can keep the cut going......Mike

 

[Richard]

If file wont scratch it then it probably got harden from all the heating, if cobalt drill bit wont drill it then the only other drill bit to use is expensive carbide drill bit. I think lancing is still a good option.

It's not my drill but it was an annular bit (??) and I think it was carbide. Now, it might have also been dull!!

Still, it didn't work.

 

[hosspuller]

Caterpillar service has their own branded lance they use on service truck. They deal with seized pins often. Call your local CAT dealer about sending their mobile service tech to lance out the pin.

 

[pycoed]

Yes - that tapered cross pin is what we call a cotter pin. What you would normally call a cotter pin, we would call a split pin. And remember any circlips(snap rings) you may leave under the bonnet (hood) or wing (fender) when collecting your spanners (wrenches)

 

[Richard]

Yes - that tapered cross pin is what we call a cotter pin. What you would normally call a cotter pin, we would call a split pin. And remember any circlips(snap rings) you may leave under the bonnet (hood) or wing (fender) when collecting your spanners (wrenches)

Can you please repeat all of that? I love listening to your accent!

 

[wdchyd]

Actually it's two totally different processes.

Carbon arc gouging, air arcing, gouging uses a ....surprise LOL...carbon rod 1/4" + or so in diameter. You need a welder with lots of amps and a compressor with lots of air. You hold an arc between the item you're gouging and the carbon rod which turns the metal molten. The air is directed in the area of the arc and blows the molten metal away. Big shower of sparks which travel a significant distance. More commonly used for backgouging welds or removing broken/cracked welds to get to good material.

A thermal lance, slice torch, is an exothermic process, once you get metal rod hot enough, you feed pure oxygen to it and it will be self sustaining i.e. burning. That's why people using torches in a shipyard for example and called burners not cutters. You can do the same thing with an acetylene torch if you have a piece of clean plate. Start the cut and turn off the acetylene and oxygen, just using the cutting oxygen and you can keep the cut going......Mike

Yes......^^^^^^^..........this

Thermal lance (or Oxy-lance I call it) uses an electrode that resembles a piece of Thin-walled steel tubing with thin wires of magnesium down the length, the electrode is lit by striking it on a copper pad connected to a 12vdc battery. The stick stays lit and eventually burns itself up, a pull of the trigger gives a high powered shot of oxygen and it looks like a giant sparkler. The magnesium reacts with the oxygen to give it the heat and the Oxy pressure helps push out the puddle while plunging.

 

[wdchyd]

YouTube

 

[wdchyd]

Don’t do it like this.......:thumbdown:
YouTube

 

[5030]

Way back when, we used to cut automotive die bolster plates and dies into moveable sections, but we used a large lance with a gas driven air compressor for air. We could cut a 14" thick solid steel plate or die any width (width was dependent on how much blow we used.). Dirty messy and had to be suited up in Nomex.

Cut like butter. Used a 5 foot long tubular lance (steel tubing) fillet with phosporus rods (sparklers) for lack of a better term. Started it with a gas axe and turned on the blow.

 

[Oldpath05]

Removing that pin by exothermic lancing is not going to be cheap at almost $2000.00. I think I could cut the whole thing off and weld another section back on a lot cheaper.
Arcair Slice Battery Pack, 12V AC 6 Hz - 6399141 — Baker's Gas & Welding Supplies, Inc.

 

[KWentling]

Hard to justify buying one for a one time use, but might be able to borrow/rent one. Doesn't take a lot of skill. I was sent to the coal mine to lance a 8" diameter nose cone pin on a haul truck and had never used one before. Got it done. Was a miserable job. Went through I don't know how many rods and a couple of oxygen bottles. The pin was probably 18" long or so. Ours wasn't fancy either. Just a holder with maybe an oxygen lever and you light it with a torch.

Removing that pin by exothermic lancing is not going to be cheap at almost $2000.00. I think I could cut the whole thing off and weld another section back on a lot cheaper.
Arcair Slice Battery Pack, 12V AC 6 Hz - 6399141 Baker's Gas & Welding Supplies, Inc.

 

[5030]

I prefer the ambient compressed air ones myself. No bottles to contend with, just the engine driven compressor. Pretty easy to build one actually and the lance rods are available at most LWS, at least at Air Liquide they are.

 

[KWentling]

Actually I think the one we used was probably shop made. If you watched wdchyd's videos, what we used was the long rods like the second video. They had a little learning going on in that video probably similar to what I had. The shop also had the small lance like in the first video which would be ideal for the OP's pin. I'm guessing the oxygen works better than compressed air because of it being an oxidizer, but don't really know. Compressed air works fine for air arcing. Seems I ended up with higher oxygen pressure than the 100 psi because of having difficulty getting the slag to flow out of the deep hole. It's been 25-30 years ago that I had that experience.I believe we did that for the Cat dealer. They had had 200 ton on that pin and couldn't move it. Took about 50 tons after we got a hole through it and it had cooled some.

I prefer the ambient compressed air ones myself. No bottles to contend with, just the engine driven compressor. Pretty easy to build one actually and the lance rods are available at most LWS, at least at Air Liquide they are.