Thermostart operation?

[Ginormous]

So, what is the proper way to operate the thermostart? I filled the little cup with fuel. How long do I turn the key to the left, until I hear something or smell smoke? Thanks!

Cheers,
G

 

[winston1]

So, what is the proper way to operate the thermostart? I filled the little cup with fuel. How long do I turn the key to the left, until I hear something or smell smoke? Thanks!

Cheers,
G

Guess you have seen this? Yanmar Tractor Thermostart Plug I have never really timed it but I am guessing I hold mine for about 15 seconds, maybe a little longer. My thinking is it takes a little time for ignition and to actually warm the air. This is just the way I do it, not saying it is the correct way.

 

[Ginormous]

Hey Winston,
Yep, I actually just saw it again on Hoye's site, looking at what they had as far as heaters. That's what prompted my question. I was probably too conservative using mine, which may be part of why I had such a hard time starting my tractor. I waited about 10 seconds not wanting to burn it out. I didn't know what to listen for etc. Do you just do it by time then?

Guess you have seen this? Yanmar Tractor Thermostart Plug I have never really timed it but I am guessing I hold mine for about 15 seconds, maybe a little longer. My thinking is it takes a little time for ignition and to actually warm the air. This is just the way I do it, not saying it is the correct way.

 

[winston1]

Just did a little reading in an I&T shop manual for several models. It states the inner coil should glow red after about five seconds. After ten seconds, burning fuel should beginto drip from plug. No more detail about how long to hold it.

Went on to read in a ym194/240 operation manual to hold it 10 to 15 seconds.

 

[California]

Just did a little reading in an I&T shop manual for several models. It states the inner coil should glow red after about five seconds. After ten seconds, burning fuel should begin to drip from plug. No more detail about how long to hold it.

Went on to read in a ym194/240 operation manual to hold it 10 to 15 seconds.

Ginormous, take off the air cleaner cover and watch the steps that Winston described. I sometimes hear a faint 'poof' as the fuel ignites, after 12~15 seconds.

But I think letting it burn and warm the manifold is needed only for extreme cold. Most of the time here (mild climate) the vaporized fuel going into the cylinders is all it needs to fire off. This vapor will ignite easier under compression compared to sprayed fuel from the injectors.

Don't worry about burning out the TS module. They seem to last several years and aren't expensive.

If starting is still difficult, try a hair dryer warming the intake side of the head for 10 minutes, then aimed into the intake while cranking. Your baby will think its a nice warm day.

This all assumes reasonable cranking speed provided by a good battery and suitable winter oil. If winter cranking is too sluggish to fire, then you need a block heater, battery heater, and/or a warm shed as additional steps.

I assume also that you are getting the engine spinning with the compression released, then dropping the compression lever, so that crankshaft inertia assists the starter.

 

[California]

And if all that doesn't restore reliable starting ...

I put a $100 ebay starter intended for a larger Yanmar on my YM240. (same engine as your YM2210). It cranks hyper fast. This thing could wake the dead (diesel engine).

Here's an old post where I described it. I see that was in response to your YM1700. Maybe swap that starter over to the YM2210?

 

[Ginormous]

Hey California,

I put a $100 ebay starter intended for a larger Yanmar on my YM240. (same engine as your YM2210). It cranks hyper fast. This thing could wake the dead (diesel engine).
Here's an old post where I described it. I see that was in response to your YM1700. Maybe swap that starter over to the YM2210?

Yes, I did put that same starter on my YM1700 -- the original starter was in bad shape. As you say, the new starter fit great and spun the engine fast. :thumbsup: I sold that tractor after I bought the newly refurbished YM2210 from Fredricks, which was part of the agreement I had with my wife about buying a new one... I suspect most of my problem is poor technique, probably made worse by a weak battery. Looks like I'll be trying to start it up again today (24 F right now) after getting more snow last night and colder temps on the way.

G

 

[Ginormous]

Starting my tractor went better yesterday than a couple weeks ago when I tried. I only drained the battery once. I held the thermostart longer this time and did hear the the *poof* of the fuel igniting and could feel the side of the block was warm. I still think I need a new battery, but I may try to put it off until fall.

G

 

[diesel lover]

Hey there, I just learned today that Yanmar tractors also use a thermostart system. This is the best video I have found on how to explain and show how it works http://youtu.be/wlFettLu11Q while attending a diesel tech school we tested one just like this using a brake bleeding pump to feed it diesel fuel. My 1960 Massey mf 25 also has thermostart

 

[California]

My 1960 Massey mf 25 also has thermostart

Perkins Diesel engine, no? I read that long ago Perkins and Yanmar cross-licensed some patents for their mutual benefit.

Here's the box showing Perkins' part number for a new TS. I bought this from the local ThermoKing (truck reefer) dealer. (I inquired there because those refrigeration units have Yanmar engines).

With this Perkins number you can find cross-references from all over the world.

 

[diesel lover]

Perkins Diesel engine, no? I read that long ago Perkins and Yanmar cross-licensed some patents for their mutual benefit. Here's the box showing Perkins' part number for a new TS. I bought this from the local ThermoKing (truck reefer) dealer. (I inquired there because those refrigeration units have Yanmar engines). With this Perkins number you can find cross-references from all over the world.

Correct! My Massey ferguson has A Perkins A4.107, 4 cylinder 107 cubic inch. I found out my tractor had a thermostart and soon got interested about them. I have read and read and come to find out other brands have thermostats such as Yanmar. How hard is a thermostart to change? I have no doubt I could re-wire and replace one. Do they unscrew from an intake manifold relitively easy?

 

[California]

Put a catch bottle under the fuel hose when you detach it. The TS simply unscrews out of the manifold like a spark plug.

 

[diesel lover]

Put a catch bottle under the fuel hose when you detach it. The TS simply unscrews out of the manifold like a spark plug.

Thanks for the tip! The element in these simply wear out just like a glow plug. What wears them out the fastest is running them dry without any fuel. What other engines have thermostarts? If they work well than in my experience any engine will start well even in cold temperatures. Glad to know yanmars are similar

 

[Winmac]

The thermostat is generally used on direct injection engines, I don't believe they wear out from normal use as much as they fail from misuse/abuse, I've seen air filters melted. Sometimes I believe they make the engine more difficult to start, like the flame uses up all the oxygen and the engine cranks over until it clears.

As for time to ignite that depends, using ours I like to stand next to the engine and listen for it to ignite( about 30sec) it makes a puff and then a hissing/huffing sound.


I bench tested one once it had a huge flame, scared me for a second.

 

[Roonabeck]

I used to go through a sequence of cranking with compression released, then TS for 10-15 seconds, then crank with compression released (briefly) and then unreleased (after a rotation or two). My 1510 would start after multiple iterations of this sequence, but it wasn't quick by any means and it seemed like a lot of stress on the starter.

This fall I read a post from Scotty Dive and he said it worked much better if he held the TS on his for more like 45-60 seconds.

Holding the TS longer is like a night and day difference. We've had what I would call a cold winter here in central MA. I've had to go out and clear snow in 10 degree weather which has never happened before (8th winter with the 1510 this year). The tractor sits in the bottom floor of a barn with plenty of ventilation, so it can't be more than about 15 degrees in there. I still go through the same starting sequence, but I only do it once (twice when it was only 10 outside) and don't crank with compression engaged for more than a few seconds total. The thing starts right up. As soon as you release the decompression lever, you can hear the engine starting to fire.

So I'd just hold the TS for longer. My parents live near you, and I can't imagine a cold spell in SW Ohio where you'd need a heater of any kind to get a YM started with a thermostart.

 

[Ginormous]

It looks like I have another problem that may also be contributing to making my tractor hard to start. I noticed coolant seaping out of the head gasket seam. It's very slow; no puddle under the tractor, just a small number of drops that got the concrete wet plus some drips hanging on the bottom of the crank case bolts. I think I'll start another thread instead of hijacking this thread to ask for advice about this -- can you hijack your own thread??

G

 

[winston1]

It looks like I have another problem that may also be contributing to making my tractor hard to start. I noticed coolant seaping out of the head gasket seam. It's very slow; no puddle under the tractor, just a small number of drops that got the concrete wet plus some drips hanging on the bottom of the crank case bolts. I think I'll start another thread instead of hijacking this thread to ask for advice about this -- can you hijack your own thread??

G

You can if you want too.

 

[Ginormous]

Roonabeck - I thing you're exactly right regarding the thermostart. I was doing the same as you, only holding it on for 10 seconds and then cranking. This past weekend I held it until I heard fuel igniting (around 45 seconds) and got started MUCH more easily than a couple weeks ago under similar conditions. :thumbsup:

 

[diesel lover]

Roonabeck - I thing you're exactly right regarding the thermostart. I was doing the same as you, only holding it on for 10 seconds and then cranking. This past weekend I held it until I heard fuel igniting (around 45 seconds) and got started MUCH more easily than a couple weeks ago under similar conditions. :thumbsup:

I couldn't get my dad to hold the thermostart for a long enough session in the cold on our Perkins The time frame needs to be gauged according to the temperature. 45 seconds is probably an acceptable number for near or below 0F .

I was at tractor supply today and saw something labeled as a "heater plug" it was a thermostart! 24.99. I had not seen one out of a tractor in years. They sure are a neat piece of technology.

The first attempt of a block heater was around 1940. There was a hollow bolt that replaced one of the head bolts and had a heated element inside. It's claimed to have worked well but we sure have come a very Long way with block heaters and preheating methods

 

[Scotty Dive]

Last night I did a little experiment. The tractor was already warmed up when I did this but outside temperature was about 20 degrees. Shut the tractor off and removed my intake tube. Then turned on the TS. At 10 seconds the glow plug was bright red and at 20 seconds it smoked and caught a flame.