This is just plain WRONG!!

equipman · Apr 19, 2004

BillG in TX
Usually, the engine oil, hydraulic fluid in rear end and front axle is there and the shops just "tops off" after assembling. Some front axles are dry because one bevel gear has to be installed so they required fluid also.
Lewis

BillG_in_TX · Apr 19, 2004

Lewis,

Thanks for the clarification.

Now, back to the original post by Metlergy, where he states: ( I found out the tractor had been delivered filled with JD hydraulic oil. ) I wonder how this is possible?

riptides · Apr 19, 2004

Bill,

Just speculation on my part ...

( Now, back to the original post by Metlergy, where he states: ( I found out the tractor had been delivered filled with JD hydraulic oil. ) I wonder how this is possible? )

Because he peeked at it and saw it was green of course!

-Mike Z. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

MessickFarmEqu · Apr 20, 2004

The reason that Kubota is restricting internet sales is because people will price shop dealers from all over the country, and then take that price to their local dealer and expect them to match it. They are not out to actualy buy from that long distance dealer, they just want a low price that they can use to strongarm their local dealership. The problem with that is that my cost for a tractor is very different than that of someone in another part of the country. I can quote much lower costs than someone in New England. A few customers that take price shopping too far are what has caused Kubota to do this.

Yankee · Apr 20, 2004

That's the nature of a global economy, my friend. There are several possible outcomes - either that New England dealer learns to compete on something other than price, he grows in order to compete as a regional or national seller, he ceases selling and his business becomes service, repair, consulting, shortlines, etc., he learns to agressively cut costs, he diversifies, etc. I don't buy that costs are higher THEREFORE he can't compete. Costs are high in a lot of places and if cost were the only, or even the most important determinant, we'd all be driving Chinese tractors sold to us by WalMart.

Seen it in action, small to large. At the small end is the bicycle shop I once worked for, where the owner sold full-price, all the time. The first time I was in his shop, he stayed open until 3:00 AM for me and spent about 4 hours with me. He had every racer in the region for a customer. He sold on quality assembly (it matters a lot), measurably better quality service (he tracked metrics), and superior follow-up (every last sale received several follow-up calls over the first year).

At the large end, I currently work for the 3 largest brokerage in the country. Full-service, full commissions and fees. Almost every other competitor on the street is in the red or struggling. We just posted earnings 22% above the 1st quarter of last year. This company is *ferocious* about controlling costs.

Harley-Davidson learned the hard way. The company almost went under due to quality issues when owned by AMF. They were protected briefly (under the Reagan administration, I believe) with special tariffs after the management buy-out. They pulled their quality up and asked (!) to end the protection early and have competed successfully since, in spite of having about the most expensive mass production bikes on the market. And they do it in spite of high US manufacturing and assembly costs and in the face of high-quality Japanese and European imports.

Kubota should be figuring out how to help their dealers compete, not just support their inefficiencies, or, say ... Kioti is going to eat their lunch.

Bill

Poppa · Apr 20, 2004

Yankee, I agree with you and was in fact ready to fire off a similar if much more poorly worded reply. What stopped me was what you alluded to in the first paragraph. What if the guy does end up closing the doors but opts to not be a service station? What if quite a few do that?

Sure, Neil might be able to beat my local dealer and sure, he might even be able to beat the guy after freight is added in. But what the heck do I do when my dealer shuts his doors and I need service. I'm not likely to be dropping a thousand dollars in shipping every time I need to send my tractor to the dealer for service.

I think ideally the guy in North Carolina should be paying the same as the guy in Maine or Washington State, but that isn't the way it works. Go buy some gas and you will see that. And, I bet the guy in NC would be less than thrilled when the reality is that his tractor will go UP in price. Is it all right? No but it is the way it seems to be working out.

And finally, I think if Kioti was as ready to eat Kubota's lunch then they would never have stopped their dealers from listing prices on the Internet. If that isn't a direct attempt at supporting their own dealer network, I don't know what is. It also seems to be the most they can do right now UNTIL their dealer network has grown. After that occurs we'll see how "Different" they remain.

polecat · Apr 20, 2004

Mr. metalurgy!!
I feel 4 u BUT!!!!.....and a big BUT...$$$$$$ COMES HARD!!!!! AND GOES SUPER EASY!!!! U maybe new to the tractor world as am I!!! But I hate to say this but the dealerships r in business 2 do one thing.MAKE $$$... I have a friend in florida that is a billionaire and he drives a 1985 chevy pickup!!! If u want to buy a brand new caddy and u drive it off the lot u and i and everyone here know that u might as well leave more than we want to in cash sitting on the curb of the lot 4 what we just drove away with...depreciation 4 a new piece of equipment!! car, tractor truck,anything....
Hence the 85 chevy or my old beater 89 ford p'up...I honestly wish I had known the TBN"ERS b4 i bought my 85 iseki..if i'd bothered to git on ebay and not got the hots when i went to pick out a tractor..i would have saved 4k 2!!! property appreciates ...trucks new eqippment ,cars and all that stuff depreciate...nxt time u and i both will buy with a little more expertise>>>>better price and used..find the guy with all the $$$ in the world and buy from him a tractor that has had all the maintenance and bin garaged 2 boot!!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I guess i'll jist have to keep workin my tractor round here till i make till i make 20k extra on the sale of the house..i'm not sayin i don't like my tractor bcause for the same pjrice i could have bought a used ford that isnt half the tractor i have..so i'm elated bout that...I dont know nor have i talked to any of the guys on this wonderful site yet that are dealers but hate to say this ..I WILL NEVER BUY NEW!!! but am glad to have them here as (mayb not now) /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif they r an incredible asset to our family but one thing always remains a constant!!! We all need to make $$$$$ and buyin and sellin is how they do that!!!! shop and research till u drop nxt time!!!Hell al the women that make most of our lives better do it!!!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Guess we both learned a lesson with our not so bottomless ckbooks on buyin ...U and i should have both taken a step back and learned from the pro's(women /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif) on that one eeeeehhhh....in my short time on tbn i have never been led astray by the guys here and as a matter of fact thry'll all tell u how to git a better deal if possible!!!! Guess we all live and learn,,,don't we /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Take care
TODD

TresCrows · Apr 20, 2004

Polecat, you got some good observations. I know what you mean but still there are "new" purcahsers and "used" purchasers and I guess the two shall never agree. I just never had good luck with used so I always buy new and use it 'till the cows come home and the wheels fall off. If you buy a 5 yo tractor and use it 'till the wheels fall off and cows come home--assuming equal use and maintencece (for example only)--- any way you look at it I get five more years of use than you from my unit and I get that with a warranty which you buying a used unit do not. There is no free ride---I get five more years--so then you/I have to divide total years by total cost of ownership--when in the past I have done this including "new" depreciation buying new comes out equal or ahead, other situations of course may vary in the infinite intricacies of life but for me and many others "new" just plain makes sense.
I would not hesitate to buy a used piece of equipment from my clone but from Roque /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif for example--no way (love you Roque, just teasing you) . J

Junkman · Apr 20, 2004

( The reason that Kubota is restricting internet sales is because people will price shop dealers from all over the country, and then take that price to their local dealer and expect them to match it. They are not out to actualy buy from that long distance dealer, they just want a low price that they can use to strongarm their local dealership. The problem with that is that my cost for a tractor is very different than that of someone in another part of the country. I can quote much lower costs than someone in New England. A few customers that take price shopping too far are what has caused Kubota to do this. )

The dealer is free to decline the sale if he doesn't like the price that the customer wants to purchase at, as well as the purchaser is free to go else where. Are you saying that Kubota charges you a differant price for a tractor in PA than a dealer in Maine or Florida will pay for that exact same tractor? If this is the case, then the problem lies with Kubota, not internet sales. Tractor dealers can control their fixed costs of sales also, but will never have a desire to do so, unless there is competition between dealers. If Kubota restricts competition between dealers, then would be in violation of Federal law.

ljh2 · Apr 20, 2004

Junkman,
I'd guess that the tractor costs the same out of the the shipping container in the Port of Baltimore, but it costs a lot more to truck that crate to Maine than it does to Western MD, Central PA, or Northern VA.

Just my observations, I'm not a dealer, but I expect that locations closest to a major shipping port (container port to be specific) would probably have lower cost of acquisition than more distant locations.

Now operational costs varying between dealerships are a function of many things. Real-estate prices, building costs, and wages are among them and per my observations vary greatly by geographic location. Not that a guy couldn't cut costs in one or more of these or other aspects here, but reducing costs may come at the price of not being able to have much stock on hand (I'm sorry we don't have one of those here for you to try, but we can order one - sight unseen - for you.) or by hiring sub-standard mechanics to do setup an service for the customers. Now, I'll agree that some dealerships have WAY more fancy buildings than they may need, but I think most of those dealerships are ones that have a pretty long history of successful business.

Again just my observations as a customer - not at all associated with any dealership or manufacturer.

I just don't think that it is realistic to expect the same price on a Japanese tractor anywhere in the USA. Geography, shipping, real-estate, and labor all have an impact on what a dealer (tractor or otherwise) has to charge to make a reasonable (the same?) profit on the same product.

And that doesn't even get into the issue of any volume discounts offered by the manufacturer to high-volume dealers.

Oh BTW, I'm sure that while Neal may be happy to ship tractors a great distance to satisfy customers, he would acknowledge the benefit of having a good dealer in your own back yard as well. It is awful hard to provide long-distance maintenance type service as cost effectivly as it is to complete the sale.