Thought on M35A2 AM General "Deuce and a Half", 2 1/2 ton Cargo Truck

[Duffster]

Would the air brakes on the deuce and a half require you to have a CDL?

MarkV

No ........

 

[Builder]

Just curious, why don't you want to get your CDL.

It's easy, my insurance didn't go up any, and it gives you a sense of freedom that you don't have to worry about "am I legal" anymore.

 

[westcliffe01]

I had the impression that as soon as you have a CDL, it is "assumed" by insurance companies that you are running a commercial operation, which with the seat hours has a far higher statistical risk of creating a loss, hence increased insurance premiums.

An example I knew of: Friend of mine homeschools his kids and him and a few other home schoolers tend to do joint outings to museums and the like. So he wanted a bigger vehicle that had room for people and some luggage. So he bought one of the first passenger version Freightliner Sprinter vans. Since the insurance companies found no record of previous registrations for Freightliner Sprinter vans (which is the exact same vehicle just with a different badge than the Mercedes Sprinter or the Dodge Sprinter) they told him that he would have to title it as a commercial vehicle, and he would have to get a commercial drivers license and a commercial insurance policy. The quotes were several times the price of "regular" vehicle insurance.

Bearing in mind that this is a "not for hire" situation, he does not have a dime comming in to offset the higher costs (insurance payment close to his vehicle payment) it was a deal breaker. After a lot of negotiation, he found an insurance company who said that they would list the vehicle on the policy as a Dodge Sprinter and cover it under a regular insurance policy. Once more of the freightliner vans had been sold, they would change it back, but everyone agreed it was essentially the exact same vehicle made in the exact same production line.

I have heard similar issues from people who convert school busses into RV's and then are unable to find affordable insurance (not comprehensive, but enough to be legal).

If having a CDL really has no significant impact on my insurance (would I be required to have a commercial policy ?) then I see no reason why not to do it. I am just afraid that if you run a commercial operation and therefore have commercial insurance, that your experience may not translate to someone else who does not drive for a living.

Just curious, why don't you want to get your CDL.

It's easy, my insurance didn't go up any, and it gives you a sense of freedom that you don't have to worry about "am I legal" anymore.

 

[Duffster]

An example I knew of: Friend of mine homeschools his kids and him and a few other home schoolers tend to do joint outings to museums and the like. So he wanted a bigger vehicle that had room for people and some luggage. So he bought one of the first passenger version Freightliner Sprinter vans. Since the insurance companies found no record of previous registrations for Freightliner Sprinter vans (which is the exact same vehicle just with a different badge than the Mercedes Sprinter or the Dodge Sprinter) they told him that he would have to title it as a commercial vehicle, and he would have to get a commercial drivers license and a commercial insurance policy. The quotes were several times the price of "regular" vehicle insurance. .

Unless that Sprinter van was 15+ passenger than the insurance company was out to lunch on saying it requires a CDL

If having a CDL really has no significant impact on my insurance (would I be required to have a commercial policy ?) then I see no reason why not to do it.

If you don't need one, the extra license fees alone would be reason enough not to get one.

 

[westcliffe01]

The Sprinter is a Max 12 passenger van. And he got the same response from all but 1 insurance company, who was prepared to "bend the rules".
The problem is that even with the Dodge van, probably 90% of registrations were commercial (hotels etc). If the record for private ownership is near to non existant, insurance companies will be quite happy to decline coverage. No insurance, no registration process (here in Michigan)

What are typical license fees ?

Unless that Sprinter van was 15+ passenger than the insurance company was out to lunch on saying it requires a CDL

If you don't need one, the extra license fees alone would be reason enough not to get one.

 

[Duffster]

The Sprinter is a Max 12 passenger van. And he got the same response from all but 1 insurance company, who was prepared to "bend the rules".
The problem is that even with the Dodge van, probably 90% of registrations were commercial (hotels etc). If the record for private ownership is near to non existant, insurance companies will be quite happy to decline coverage. No insurance, no registration process (here in Michigan)

I don't doubt that the insurance company said that but it is not up to them to require a CDL.

What are typical license fees ?

This will vary from state to state, but it will be more than a class D

 

[westcliffe01]

LoneCowboy, it seems that the different states word their CDL rules slightly differently. Colorado says:

• Recreational Vehicles. When used for recreational purposes a motor home which truck or motor home is used exclusively for pleasure, enjoyment, other recreational purposes, or family transportation of the owner, lessee, or occupant and is not used to transport cargo or passengers for profit, hire, or otherwise in any business or commercial enterprise.

So while worded differently to Michigan, they do use the word truck and the usage described would fit my situation.

So I have to ask why it is that you are required to have a CDL, DOT # and all the rest of the runaround if all you are doing is moving personal posessions not for commercial use ? Or are you moving your own stuff for commercial purposes ?

A building contractor may move construction equipment that he owns, but it is for commercial use (he charges for the use of it, or it is part of the service that his business provides for reward).

My understanding is that if there is no form of compensation involved, there is also no need for the CDL and the other related activities.

I called the local state troopers office, but the person who answered the phone wasn't knowledgeable and took my info and will get someone to call back on Monday.

Private use and farm use are different things. Be sure you are talking about the right thing.

Private/not for hire carriers are what I am. I'm commercial but I don't haul anyone else's stuff. I don't need an M/C number, I don't need to be bonded and I don't have "operating authority" (and don't need it). I do need a CDL, I do need USDOT # and I still have to have all that stuff (inspections, drug tests, paperwork)

There are a lot of single axle dumps out there at 25,999GVW. Couple that with a 10,000lb trailer or less and you're still a class C driver. (go over that and you get into B's or A's). Just a thought.

 

[Dargo]

Unless that Sprinter van was 15+ passenger than the insurance company was out to lunch on saying it requires a CDL




If you don't need one, the extra license fees alone would be reason enough not to get one.

I have another reason not to get one. When I was building my lake I obviously had to get a CDL in IN for my dump truck unless it "never" left my property. Well, that would be tough to promise. Anyway, the so called test was about as basic as basic gets. The medical test was pretty basic as well asking obvious questions that would honestly be important such as if you have seizures, pass out frequently etc. However, if a physician was completely honest on the IN physical exam form, hardly anyone would get the CDL. I'm pretty sure it included questions like "Have you had any injury or been sick in the last 5 years?". Um, who hasn't been injured in the last 5 years??? They also had some stupid ones like "Do you abuse alcohol or narcotics?". That one sort of reminds me of the question you get when purchasing a firearm that asks if you are currently a fugitive from the law. LOL!

Anyway, my reason not to get one was that when I took the actual driving test I was told I should take it in my vehicle that I'd be driving. They had a freakin' DOT cop there that went over my truck with a fine tooth comb. I had to fix "leaks" around my valve covers, oil pan, differential cover and something else dumb. I say dumb because none of these items were leaking!! They had dirt stuck to them from where oil had seeped out over the years. I've seen the same on brand new trucks still on the lot! I had my valve covers changed (which weren't bad) so they could see that work had been done and just pressure washed the rest off. Grr! When I passed the inspection from the DOT cop my actual driving test was pretty well me just driving a guy down the road and back while he asked me about how he could dig a pond on his property.

I don't know if all states are the same, but I think it should be clear why I didn't bother to renew my CDL (class C no less) after I sold my truck. I guess I'll have to start all over again if I want to begin a new career as a school bus driver (that was what most people in line with me were getting their licenses for).

 

[Builder]

I had the impression that as soon as you have a CDL, it is "assumed" by insurance companies that you are running a commercial operation, which with the seat hours has a far higher statistical risk of creating a loss, hence increased insurance premiums.

When I got my CDL, my insurance rates did not increase, in fact they may have went down slightly.

If having a CDL really has no significant impact on my insurance (would I be required to have a commercial policy ?) then I see no reason why not to do it. I am just afraid that if you run a commercial operation and therefore have commercial insurance, that your experience may not translate to someone else who does not drive for a living.

I have commercial insurance on 3 trucks and a CDL for a long time. My insurance did not increase when I got my CDL way back. My trucks currently have premiums of:

'07 GMC 3500 $900
'92 IH 4800 dumptruck $850
'05 Chevy 1500 pickup $800

I don't know if that helps you with your decision, but those rates seem quite reasonable for full coverage and $500 deductables.

 

[westcliffe01]

Those numbers certainly seem reasonable, particularly if you have comprehensive coverage. Michigan seems more expensive than much of the balance of the Midwest because of the "no fault" policy, so your insurer always has to pay for the damage to your vehicle even if someone runs a red light and Tbone's you. And we pay a % into an "uninsured driver" fund.

What are the vehicle registration fees for your dump truck ? Our current (passenger) vehicles run about $160/yr.