Thought on M35A2 AM General "Deuce and a Half", 2 1/2 ton Cargo Truck

[westcliffe01]

Thanks for the Info. It certainly is unusual given the low miles and spotless condition. I have sent the seller a few questions. It's a bit less than 800mi away from here.

PM sent. Hope it works for you. It's a really nice little 4x4.

 

[Builder]

I was shocked at how clean it was, but not at the mileage. Mine is a '92 and only had ~70K on it. 4x4's typically have much lower mileage since they're not popular for over the road use. I thought it would be great for our situation since you don't want to get a CDL, but you want air brakes and need to keep the price reasonable. You'll have to get a CDL if you tow a trailer over 10,000 lbs.

It has more legal payload capacity than a deuce and would be much cheaper to repair/maintain. It's 25,880 GVWR. The truck prolly weighs 13,000 empty, so your payload would be ~ 6.5 tons! Not bad. You could remove the bed winch it it's not your cup of tea and put it on the front to give you some more off road options. Or sell it if not needed.

Not as good off road as a deuce, but my 4800 goes just about anywhere I need it to. You will be pretty impressed with the DT360. It's one tough little diesel and great on fuel. It's so simple to work on-not much more than a tractor engine from a mid-size farm tractor. The 5 speed is boring, but bulletproof/cheap to fix/replace. Try to find out what the ratio is on the rears. Hope for something under 5.38's. I have 5.38's and in 6th gear I can do 55 max. In 7th I can do 70, but it's an O/D. You will only have a 1to1 so hopefully it has 4.88's so you can go ~60+

The tires are lo pros, so they're cheap to replace.

I bet the seller will take thousands less in today's economy used rucks aren't getting crap for resale.

 

[westcliffe01]

I was wondering about the payload. The bobcat is only 6200lb and should be around 8500 with the trailer. I have been looking at the JD 350 dozers too, they are heavier, I believe 10k without trailer. Might have to pay one of the locals with a semi to move that for me, but it will not move very often. I was planning to offer to "relieve" some of the ranchers of some of their rock to use in my home. I can take the bobcat out there to load the boulders onto a trailer. It certainly looks like a more appropriate truck/trailer weight ratio, and the bigger tires will make a big difference on the dirt roads.

Thanks for the tip.

 

[Builder]

Here's me loading my 4800 with my previous Case 580 SuperM backhoe.

 

[LoneCowboy]

I was shocked at how clean it was, but not at the mileage. Mine is a '92 and only had ~70K on it. 4x4's typically have much lower mileage since they're not popular for over the road use. I thought it would be great for our situation since you don't want to get a CDL, but you want air brakes and need to keep the price reasonable. You'll have to get a CDL if you tow a trailer over 10,000 lbs.
.

If he was using it commercially he would
But he's not. if it's "farm use" or "recreational use" then all he needs is a class A license, not a CDL.
He doesn't need a bigger class of license with that truck, he can still drive it with a class C (standard driver's license) here in CO (up to 26,000lbs), his issue arises with the over 10,000lb trailer. But farm use, within 150 miles, no CDL needed, but he would need a class A license.

 

[Renze]

Long noses allow plenty of room for 500+ HP in line six Cummins, Detroit & CAT diesels (well CAT up until this year) without having to sit on top of the engine in a cracker jack box.

Hauls are typically longer in the US compared to little itty-bitty drives in Euro and comfort is desired on long trips. Being mounted over a diesel engine in the jockey box is hot, noisy & shaky.

Ginaf uses DAF components (because we can take more load per axle than anywhere else in Europe when the axle is DRIVEN, which means DAF focuses on the European market while Ginaf serves the DAF dealers with special vehicles for the Dutch market alone)
The DAF engine is rebadged as PACCAR and comes in your Petes and Kennies. They have 500+ hp in their latest 12.9 liter generation.
When DAF still had the old trusty 1160 engine, they used the Cummins N14 in their 500hp offerings, but it was replaced by the 12.9 DAF engine because of better NVH, low end torque and fuel consumption. Later this engine evolved into the Paccar MX which you guys also get these days from Pete and Kenny.

The cracker box, i guess you've never really driven European trucks recently... My neighbor used to be a trucker, and having tried one when visiting a relative in Canada, he said American trucks he drove, did have cool looks, but were crude and had a very poor ergonomy.

Knowing you, being as American as Americans can be (no offense) i think its useless to debate taste, because taste is what this controversy all comes down to)

Hauls are typically longer in the US compared to little itty-bitty drives in Euro and comfort is desired on long trips.

I have heard this argument before on long-haul trucks, but do you guys haul dirt from state to state ?

Bridge law is a big part of the problem
In Colorado, the max you can get on a straight truck is 54,000lbs with 3 axles. Additional axles do NOT help in Colorado.. (that's just the rules in this state, many others have more with extra axles helping).

to meet Federal Bridge law with 54,000lbs in 3 axles, you have to measure 24 feet from front wheel to rear wheel. (which is effectively a wheelbase of about 22 feet or 264 inches).

In this state, almost all dump trucks have a 14, 15, or 16 foot box and rarely do you see a heavy front axle. And the reason is that most dump trucks weigh about 22,000lbs or so and can thus haul about 15 tons max. Therefore most things are 1 yard per ton, so there's no reason to have a bigger box.

Thanks a lot for explaining !!
24.5 ton GVW isnt much for a 3 axle truck ? With an empty weight of 11.000 pounds, or allmost 5 ton, the truck is actually very light !!

With Germans, we also keep explaining that we have these Ginaf and Terberg dumptrucks, which can take 11.5 ton per driven axle when spaced more than 1.8 meter from any other axle, in only Dutch and Finnish laws !
This law was made to make it possible to pull a 3 axle semitrailer with a 4x2 long distance truck with sufficient 5th wheel load when driving empty. The Dutch exploit this loophole to create anything from 6x2 to 10x8 dumptrucks that have way more net payload than any other standard German or Swedish built 6x6, (or a standard DAF equivalent for the European market) with 7.5 ton front axle and 19 ton tandem

 

[LoneCowboy]

I have heard this argument before on long-haul trucks, but do you guys haul dirt from state to state ?

I'm a local guy, I only work in the Northern Front Range of Colorado and due to DOT laws I'm limited to Colorado

I"ve driven over 400 miles in a day, including loading the dump truck, driving it to the site and then driving back.

I've also done over 300 miles in a day driving the semi to a site, working all day and driving back.

so yeah, local dirt guys can easily put on 500 miles a day, for day after day.

 

[Builder]

I have heard this argument before on long-haul trucks, but do you guys haul dirt from state to state ?

I'm no long hauler, but I like comfort if it's 1 hour or 10 hours of driving.

I just can't get into cab-overs and their feeling of your face being the first thing to contact what you hit. I know they're better to manuever, and that's why Europeans like them in those tighter city streets and narrower roads.

No offense taken, hope you feel same way!

 

[bontai_Joe]

Thanks to all for a VERY educational thread. I learned a lot about trucks and what to maybe look for in a medium or heavy truck to be used for hauling.

 

[Renze]

I'm no long hauler, but I like comfort if it's 1 hour or 10 hours of driving.

Wanna try the "new" Paccar engine in a DAF XF105 ?? when you're comforted by the looks of a big mockup nose glued in front of it, it'll be your best truck experience so far

I just can't get into cab-overs and their feeling of your face being the first thing to contact what you hit. I know they're better to manuever, and that's why Europeans like them in those tighter city streets and narrower roads.

Yesterday i had to pick up some 25" earthmover rims in Belgium, near the French border. I had to take the service van of the mechanic who had a day off that day, with a tandem trailer. It was the first time i made such a long trip in a van: Indeed the absence of a hood (like my S70), was a bit strange, but you should be looking ahead of you (instead of in front of you) anyways. I got used to it pretty soon. The 2.5 Diesel with manual 6 speed did way beyond my expectations, i only had to get back to 5th when trying to accelerate back to 110 km/h uphill. The van, full of heavy tools (a 3.5 ton registered vehicle with air helpers), weighs 4.5 ton and the trailer about 1.5 ton.

No offense taken, hope you feel same way!

Americans will be doing it the American way, Europeans will be doing it the European way... Allthough in the globalising market, we're getting more of your fastfood chains, and you're getting more of our truck engines, so the differences are getting smaller