Tooth bar uses?

[Cortland]

My parents have about 10 acres in central Virginia and just got a JD 3720 to go along with it. They used to have a 5105 and--with my meager tractor knowledge--my excavation experiences with that tractor involved no toothbar and no ballast to speak of and were accordingly fruitless. I have since educated myself slightly in such matters, so I suggested to my parents that they get a toothbar installed before they took delivery of the 3720 -- which they did, all I had to do was pay for it!

So my personal passion is the shooting sports, and my parents have graciously allowed me to build a small shooting range on a part of their new property which is a little less than two hours from me. Compared to my experiences on the 5105, having the toothbar on that little 3720 hit me like a revelation -- that thing is a digging machine (plus the AC is nice, too).

The range will be set up on a hill -- I'm digging the side out a portion of the hill and piling the dirt at the bottom of the hill for the target berm. Here are some photos of when I first started a couple weekends ago:

This is the berm. It was maybe four or five feet high when this picture was taken.

This is the hole. A U-shaped retaining wall and covered shooting bench pavilion will eventually go in here. The direction of fire would be towards the camera. The hole is probably twice as deep now.

I figure I have maybe four or five more weekends of earth moving to do. So far the tractor has about 25 hours on it (24 having been put on by me) and the berm is about 20 feet wide and maybe 6 feet tall. I'm hoping to get it about twice that height. I've also dug up some fariliy massive bits of stone with the FEL+toothbar. It works great for digging up small trees, too.

I've been terrifically impressed with the digging capacity of this tractor. My question would be, what CAN'T you do with a toothbar? Sure the bucket on a 3720 is a little on the small size, but given enough time and diesel I think you could do anything with it.

 

[VTtractorguy]

VTtractorguy:

Nice pictures ! I see a tiller in your future for garden and flower beds as well as an old beat up junkyard car/truck hood (AKA "stone boat") to help you skid the larger rocks that you can not lift. Jay

LOL

Jay, that was too funny… brought my spirits up for the first time today (daughter problems… don’t ask… ).

Good idea on the truck hood. I’ll park that next to the rocks and put the body of the truck where the stone wall once was on the other side of the driveway. When people ask what it’s doing there I’ll blame it on the site guy. Maybe I’ll even paint his name on it.

 

[JDFANATIC]

Thx Efreet and JDFANATIC. Agreed on the tires. I'm thinking I'll do the R4s as I do have clay around here and want to go in the woods to do clearing. I've been told that there is a new type of chain that works well with these tires... Something about extra lugs that give better bite when some fall between the bars. Not sure what that is but we'll see.

JD, you think a BB is the better choice for this driveway as opposed to a rake? Is it also good for smoothing woods dirt once the roots & stumps are out?

This is the third house we've built (glutton for punishment) and is by far the one that needs the most landscaping.... I really need this machine.

VTtractorguy,

A York-style rake can work with gravel drives. The problem with them is that they really don't dig (no down-force on the 3PH). A box blade will dig, and what is required to fill the invariable pot holes that will form, is not the rake that will smooth gravel into them, but a method of actually digging the pot holes out. Personally I think the rake is easier to master usage techniques with, but the box blade is a far more versatile implement (and not too hard to learn how to use).

 

[VTtractorguy]

Cortland, that's impressive, and good to see those pics. Now I am confident I can dig down a foot or two to lay the founddation for stone work around my house. The only issue I may have is our whole hill is ledge. We had to blast the cellar hole, septic tank hole, water & power lines, etc. I think there is about two feet of top material all around which I can dig into. Shouldn't be a problem. So at this juncture, it looks like it's going to be the tractor, 62D, FEL, BB, ballast box, snow blower, probably turfs & chains... Can't waite

 

[VTtractorguy]

VTtractorguy,

A York-style rake can work with gravel drives. The problem with them is that they really don't dig (no down-force on the 3PH). A box blade will dig, and what is required to fill the invariable pot holes that will form, is not the rake that will smooth gravel into them, but a method of actually digging the pot holes out. Personally I think the rake is easier to master usage techniques with, but the box blade is a far more versatile implement (and not too hard to learn how to use).

JD, that's good to know about the box blade. Makes sense. It's on the list.

 

[Yseesee]

Hey VTtractorguy the place looks great and I can see a nice 2520 in your future. I would love to get my hands on those stones you have!

 

[Chris2520]

probably turfs & chains... Can't waite

Go with R4's thay will be better traction for digging. you said you were going to do alot of land scapeing......

Chris....

 

[23TWENTY]

VT-
I GOTTHE 2320 WITH R4'S AND 2060 RAKE, JUST GOT THE RAKE YESTERDAY AND USED IT FOR ABOUT AN HOUR OR SO. WORKS GREAT, THIS IS W/O A DOUBT A IMPLEMENT I RECOMEND YOU GET.
JUST AS JD MENTIONED VERY EASY TO USE BUT CAN NOT TAKE THE PLACE OF A GOOD BOX BLADE FOR THAT I CHOSE THE BB2048 EVEN THOUGH YOU COULD PROBUALLY GO BIGGER (MAYBE A 5' BB ON EITHER 23XX OR 25XX), AND BE OK!!!

 

[Dougster]

I will provide pictoral evidence of the utility of tooth bars. The first is an old posted picture. The second happened today. I discovered another use for toothbars today as well- you can strip lower branches off tree and shrubs before you push them over from various angles and then pull them out with the FEL hydraulics. I was able to pop a plumb and an apple tree today using this technique. By stripping the lower branches I possibly protected the radiator from branch reactive response . Jay

A couple quick questions Jay from a still "un-toothed" man:

How do you feel about bolt-on toothbars vs. welded-on teeth? Does a bolt-on toothbar generally provide the same strength and utility? Or is it a compromise?

Also, how do you feel about so-called landscape toothbars (with about double the teeth) vs. regular spaced toothbars? Are they worth the extra money? Or are you actually losing function?

Dougster

 

[jbrumberg]

Dougster:

Good to hear from you again . I believe that having a bolt-on toothbar gives you the benefit of having both the toothbar and/or a cutting edge on the bucket. I am not particularly impressed with the design of NH's bolt-on/bolt-over the bolt-on cutting edge toothbar. It was about 2" shorter than the inside of my 60" HD bucket and would not completely slip over the bolt-on cutting edge for a lenghtwise bar-edge continuous contact for strength, but it does contact firmly where the teeth are. It apppears this model was designed for the standard bucket and I had to drill new mounting holes in the side of the buckect (No big deal). I can not complain about the utility of the toothblade ! I can do a lot more with the bucket with the toothbar as it relates to ground engaging tasks and debris moving. I will remove it for the Winter months for snow removal. I have no experience with the landscape toothbars, but I would think that they would catch a lot of rocks between the tines when digging in NE dirt causing the stoppage of the tractor to remove the stuck rocks. Jay

 

[Dougster]

Dougster: Good to hear from you again . I believe that having a bolt-on toothbar gives you the benefit of having both the toothbar and/or a cutting edge on the bucket. I am not particularly impressed with the design of NH's bolt-on/bolt-over the bolt-on cutting edge toothbar. It was about 2" shorter than the inside of my 60" HD bucket and would not completely slip over the bolt-on cutting edge for a lenghtwise bar-edge continuous contact for strength, but it does contact firmly where the teeth are. It apppears this model was designed for the standard bucket and I had to drill new mounting holes in the side of the buckect (No big deal). I can not complain about the utility of the toothblade ! I can do a lot more with the bucket with the toothbar as it relates to ground engaging tasks and debris moving. I will remove it for the Winter months for snow removal. I have no experience with the landscape toothbars, but I would think that they would catch a lot of rocks between the tines when digging in NE dirt causing the stoppage of the tractor to remove the stuck rocks. Jay

Thanks Jay. So I take it that you've had no issues with toothbar looseness or weakness wherein a set of welded-on teeth might have performed better? I understand the advantage of being able to remove the toothbar, but I've already got two buckets and am fast headed for a third. No personal need here to be putting teeth on or taking them off.

Those landscape toothbars are kind of interesting, but costly and I have to agree with you that they may be more trouble than they are worth in some cases. Still, if all goes according to plan and I get my 66" toothed digging bucket this week... putting one of those landscape toothbars on my old 72" light-duty bucket might not be a completely absurd idea.

Dougster

 

[EdC]

Dougster

If I could add my two cents here: I harass my bolted on toothbar a LOT even splitting rocks along the fault lines in them for landscaping. There has been no problem at all with the bolted on bar.

 

[Dougster]

Dougster If I could add my two cents here: I harass my bolted on toothbar a LOT even splitting rocks along the fault lines in them for landscaping. There has been no problem at all with the bolted on bar.

Thanks Ed - Good to know that looseness or weakness (compared to direct welded teeth) is not an issue. Next step is to see if my most local option in terms of a supplier will take my old 72" bucket and custom fit it with a toothbar vs. working off measured dimensions. Seems to be a common problem out there... getting an exact fit off owner-supplied dimensions alone.

Dougster

 

[ragkar]

You'll be unhappy with the toothbar if your task is grading. I attempted to do this today with poor results (I have to confess to ten hours experience on my 2320) Luckily a visitor offered to show me how to do it. First he took off the bolted on toothbar. Then he dragged the front edge of the bucket (about a 60 degree angle) backwards and forwards over the graveled surface. He stressed keeping the front wheels on the ground and riding the bucket lift control to accommodate the ground surface.

 

[Dougster]

You'll be unhappy with the toothbar if your task is grading. I attempted to do this today with poor results (I have to confess to ten hours experience on my 2320) Luckily a visitor offered to show me how to do it. First he took off the bolted on toothbar. Then he dragged the front edge of the bucket (about a 60 degree angle) backwards and forwards over the graveled surface. He stressed keeping the front wheels on the ground and riding the bucket lift control to accommodate the ground surface.

I would have to agree that backdragging with the purpose of grading with a regular digging toothbar installed wouldn't seem to make much sense... but what about a so-called "landscape toothbar"? It has double the teeth spaced very close together... almost like a super-heavy-duty rake! I would think that has possibilities in some scenarios when the backhoe installed on the back of the tractor prevents easy jobsite use of the rake or box blade.

On the other hand, the local (MA) company that makes those landscape toothbars and sells them on eBay is far from responsive... actually kind of hard to deal with. The idea may or may not have merit... but the manufacturer seems a bit out to lunch unfortunately.

Dougster

 

[prosperity]

Dougster,

If you are set on having that many teeth on a tooth bar, Markham will accommodate you.

I just ordered a 53" bar with 7 teeth vs. the standard 5. The charge for the extra teeth is $26 per tooth - get as many as you want.

Plus, super excellent and prompt service.

 

[Dougster]

Dougster, If you are set on having that many teeth on a tooth bar, Markham will accommodate you. I just ordered a 53" bar with 7 teeth vs. the standard 5. The charge for the extra teeth is $26 per tooth - get as many as you want. Plus, super excellent and prompt service.

I guess most folks are very satisfied with Markham. I avoided considering them after Bill6 reported several crooked teeth on the toothbar he ordered (even though it was eventually replaced by Markham... just didn't need the hassle) and because shipping costs had to be much higher than my local source.

I'm still not convinced that the heavily-toothed "landscape toothbar" approach has merit, but I've been told that pretty much all custom toothbar and bucket manufacturers will provide extra teeth if you're willing to pay for them.

Dougster

 

[jbrumberg]

Dougster:

I apologize for not responding earlier to your question to me regarding toothbar looseness and/or weakness: So far I have had no problems , but once I am in better shape I will be taking on my raised rock flower bed project. This will be a good test. Jay

 

[Dougster]

Dougster: I apologize for not responding earlier to your question to me regarding toothbar looseness and/or weakness: So far I have had no problems , but once I am in better shape I will be taking on my raised rock flower bed project. This will be a good test. Jay

Thanks Jay. I've pretty much decided that my new 66" aggressive digging bucket will have welded teeth (couldn't pick it up last week due to continuing trailer problems... maybe Tuesday?) and the 72" light-duty bucket will be backfitted with a toothbar of some kind... manufacturer yet unknown. In that latter regard, a lot will depend on tightness and accuracy of fit. That's where your remaining input will be most valuable.

Dougster

 

[jbrumberg]

Dougster:

Can do ... Will do . Jay