5030
Epic Contributor
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2003
- Messages
- 26,997
- Location
- SE Michigan in the middle of nowhere
- Tractor
- Kubota M9000 HDCC3 M9000 HDC
Well put, Mr. Engineer. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Towing with a Tundra - FYI
- Thread starter Jay4200
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5030
Epic Contributor
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2003
- Messages
- 26,997
- Location
- SE Michigan in the middle of nowhere
- Tractor
- Kubota M9000 HDCC3 M9000 HDC
Umh:
Take off your sunglasses and rationally compare the build differences between the drivelines of the Ford and Tundra.
I'm not saying the Ford or the Toyrota is trouble free.
Neither is my 2003 Western Star and the rears on my Western Star as well as the driveline pale the the 350.
It's all about capabilities and design limits, not the frequency of repairs.
My W'Star needs weekly maintenance, so what. I don't think a Toyrota or a Ford 350 can haul around 161,000 pounds every day? Can it??
Take off your sunglasses and rationally compare the build differences between the drivelines of the Ford and Tundra.
I'm not saying the Ford or the Toyrota is trouble free.
Neither is my 2003 Western Star and the rears on my Western Star as well as the driveline pale the the 350.
It's all about capabilities and design limits, not the frequency of repairs.
My W'Star needs weekly maintenance, so what. I don't think a Toyrota or a Ford 350 can haul around 161,000 pounds every day? Can it??
uhmgawa
Gold Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Umh:
Take off your sunglasses and rationally compare...)</font>
I can't imagine why some would think you to be gruff.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( It's all about capabilities and design limits, not the frequency of repairs.)</font>
It depends on the situation. If you require the capabilities of an Fx50 then
you are limited to that class of tool. Otherwise a choice exists such that
other factors of significance will influence the choice.
Take off your sunglasses and rationally compare...)</font>
I can't imagine why some would think you to be gruff.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( It's all about capabilities and design limits, not the frequency of repairs.)</font>
It depends on the situation. If you require the capabilities of an Fx50 then
you are limited to that class of tool. Otherwise a choice exists such that
other factors of significance will influence the choice.
ksmmoto
Gold Member
I have a 2002 Ford F150 FX4 with the 5.4 V-8, 3.55 Limited Slip Rear Axle. On the drivers door post is the axle ratings: Front GAWR 3600 lbs, Rear GAWR 3550 lbs. In the owners manual is the rest: GVWR 6500 lbs, GCWR 12,500 lbs and Maximum Trailer Tow 7500 lbs. Also the Cargo Capacity 1750 lbs.
The 2002 F250 with the same engine and equipment is rated at 7100 lbs Maximum Trailer Tow, slighly less. With V-10 or Diesel it is much higher. My truck with the 3.73 axle goes up to 8500 lbs Maximum Trailer Tow. The new F150's are higher yet, rated up to 9900 lbs Maximum Trailer Tow with the right equipment options.
ksmmoto
The 2002 F250 with the same engine and equipment is rated at 7100 lbs Maximum Trailer Tow, slighly less. With V-10 or Diesel it is much higher. My truck with the 3.73 axle goes up to 8500 lbs Maximum Trailer Tow. The new F150's are higher yet, rated up to 9900 lbs Maximum Trailer Tow with the right equipment options.
ksmmoto
Highbeam
Super Member
Pretty dang sure that you also have the GVWR on the door sticker. Do realize that the maximum trailer tow and the cargo capacity rating is bogus and that you need to actually do the math using the GCWR and GVWR.
I was pretty surprized to see that the 3/4 ton version of my pickup has less "tow capacity" than my half ton despite the much heavier duty construction of the frame, brakes, tranny, rear end. Must be that those items are heavier too.
I was pretty surprized to see that the 3/4 ton version of my pickup has less "tow capacity" than my half ton despite the much heavier duty construction of the frame, brakes, tranny, rear end. Must be that those items are heavier too.
wushaw
Elite Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Pretty dang sure that you also have the GVWR on the door sticker. Do realize that the maximum trailer tow and the cargo capacity rating is bogus and that you need to actually do the math using the GCWR and GVWR.
I was pretty surprized to see that the 3/4 ton version of my pickup has less "tow capacity" than my half ton despite the much heavier duty construction of the frame, brakes, tranny, rear end. Must be that those items are heavier too. )</font>
Yea Highbeam...one of Fords better ideas, I just can't understand why any manufacture would put such a small motor in a piece of equipment designed for a HD application /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
I was pretty surprized to see that the 3/4 ton version of my pickup has less "tow capacity" than my half ton despite the much heavier duty construction of the frame, brakes, tranny, rear end. Must be that those items are heavier too. )</font>
Yea Highbeam...one of Fords better ideas, I just can't understand why any manufacture would put such a small motor in a piece of equipment designed for a HD application /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
You know, after reading this, it make me nervous about hauling my Audi V8Q (it's german for Heavy and complicated) on a trailer tha usually hauls a big bobcat behind my Father in law's 1/2 ton ram with the 360. No brakes and come to find out we had no lights all the way to Colorado from Columbus, IN.
Hmmm...I never really put much thought into towing. I just haul what I need to haul with what I have. Most of the time it's been with my heavy half ton '84 Ford F-150 4wd.
I now pull a 3500 lbs. single axle trailer behind my 1998 Fleetwood Flair to all of our band events and I never notice it back there. Mainly, because I can't even see it in my mirrors. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Chris
Hmmm...I never really put much thought into towing. I just haul what I need to haul with what I have. Most of the time it's been with my heavy half ton '84 Ford F-150 4wd.
I now pull a 3500 lbs. single axle trailer behind my 1998 Fleetwood Flair to all of our band events and I never notice it back there. Mainly, because I can't even see it in my mirrors. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Chris
daTeacha
Veteran Member
jstpssng -- the front wheels stayed on the ground going up the hill that my driveway used to be, but they just spun. The people added about 300 lb to the front. We're talking creeper gear here, maybe 1/10 mph or less, engine as slow as it would run to do the work, and a total distance of about 100 feet to get up a hill that has since been replaced by a retaining wall. I had to use the steering brakes to slow whichever rear was spinning most to get the thing up the worst part. Once past that, the people were out and the Kubota just chugged on up the rest of the way. Looking back on it, I should have put some big rocks in there instead, but the people were standing around wondering how they could help, so I let them.
I think we've all done things that we now look back and say "I did THAT?" The important thing is that we learn from our mistakes.
On a related note;
I had a pickup hauling a covered 2 snowsled trailer pass me tonight, on an icy 4 lane doing about 80... knowing how those short trailers can start bouncing and whipping I wonder if he got where he was going. It wouldn't be the first time I've seen snowsleds sprayed along the side of the road... not a pretty sight.
On a related note;
I had a pickup hauling a covered 2 snowsled trailer pass me tonight, on an icy 4 lane doing about 80... knowing how those short trailers can start bouncing and whipping I wonder if he got where he was going. It wouldn't be the first time I've seen snowsleds sprayed along the side of the road... not a pretty sight.
FarmDiesel
New member
Just a few thoughts on the subject, coming from my perspective as a prosecutor and attorney:
1. I've prosecuted traffic court cases for some time now. I've never seen an officer write a citation for being over GVWR, Mfr recommended axle weights, tire ratings, spring ratings, GCWR, etc. As long as you're not over on your license plates for the truck and trailer, and as long as you're not over on your legal axle limits (what the state says you can carry per axle, given your license plates, driver's license, the bridge law, etc.), you're not likely to get a ticket for being over on the technical, manufacturer recommended tow rating for your vehicle. Now...if you're obscenely overloaded (bumper scraping the ground), or if you are otherwise stupid or anger an officer (speed, cut someone off, no trailer lights, etc.), you're on your own. I once saw an individual get a ticket for having a windshield that wasn't DOT approved because he really PO'd an officer. That said, were I towing the above load with a Tundra, I wouldn't be too worried about getting a ticket for exceeding my GAWR or GCWR, provided that I was under my license plate weight limits, not on a no-load bridge, and not driving unduly through residential or non-truck areas.
2. I'm always amazed by the number of people who say things like: a) drive overloaded and your insurance won't cover you if you get in an accident; or, b) drive overloaded and you'll get sued and lose if you get in an accident. Now...to be clear..."overloaded" has a lot of meanings. Pull 80K with a Tundra, and you get what you deserve. However, a technical violation of the manufacturer's recommendations is not cause for termination of insurance or for too big of a fear of litigation. Insurance exists to cover you when you're in an accident. By definition, in the vast majority of accidents, someone is at fault, or 'negligent'. Their negligence can be in a variety of forms...not being observant, speeding, running a light, or driving an overweight vehicle. But the insurer CANNOT refuse to cover you because you were negligent...that is the purpose of insurance...to cover accidents where you're negligent. And I've never seen or heard of a verifiable single case where an insurer dropped someone for being overweight. Good luck to the insurer that makes that argument. As for the contention that being overweight is an "intentional act" which negates insurance coverage...it is as intentional as speeding...neither allows your insurer to write you off when you get in an accident. Similarly, for situations where you get in an accident and get sued, the question is still whether or not you were negligent, and whether or not the other person was negligent. Being overweight may make you a bit more negligent than you otherwise would be, but it's not a noose around your neck.
So for those who have posted the scary, scary threats about losing insurance, being sued, or getting tickets for exceeding GAWR, I'd challenge you to bring forth verifiable proof of this occurring, absent either: a) an insane, stupidly overweight load; b) a rude driver that offended a police officer; or, c) evidence compelling a determination that an actual accident involving an overweight vehicle was the result of intentional misconduct by the driver, and not mere negligence (and on that last one...many times, auto insurance has to cover intentional acts as well).
1. I've prosecuted traffic court cases for some time now. I've never seen an officer write a citation for being over GVWR, Mfr recommended axle weights, tire ratings, spring ratings, GCWR, etc. As long as you're not over on your license plates for the truck and trailer, and as long as you're not over on your legal axle limits (what the state says you can carry per axle, given your license plates, driver's license, the bridge law, etc.), you're not likely to get a ticket for being over on the technical, manufacturer recommended tow rating for your vehicle. Now...if you're obscenely overloaded (bumper scraping the ground), or if you are otherwise stupid or anger an officer (speed, cut someone off, no trailer lights, etc.), you're on your own. I once saw an individual get a ticket for having a windshield that wasn't DOT approved because he really PO'd an officer. That said, were I towing the above load with a Tundra, I wouldn't be too worried about getting a ticket for exceeding my GAWR or GCWR, provided that I was under my license plate weight limits, not on a no-load bridge, and not driving unduly through residential or non-truck areas.
2. I'm always amazed by the number of people who say things like: a) drive overloaded and your insurance won't cover you if you get in an accident; or, b) drive overloaded and you'll get sued and lose if you get in an accident. Now...to be clear..."overloaded" has a lot of meanings. Pull 80K with a Tundra, and you get what you deserve. However, a technical violation of the manufacturer's recommendations is not cause for termination of insurance or for too big of a fear of litigation. Insurance exists to cover you when you're in an accident. By definition, in the vast majority of accidents, someone is at fault, or 'negligent'. Their negligence can be in a variety of forms...not being observant, speeding, running a light, or driving an overweight vehicle. But the insurer CANNOT refuse to cover you because you were negligent...that is the purpose of insurance...to cover accidents where you're negligent. And I've never seen or heard of a verifiable single case where an insurer dropped someone for being overweight. Good luck to the insurer that makes that argument. As for the contention that being overweight is an "intentional act" which negates insurance coverage...it is as intentional as speeding...neither allows your insurer to write you off when you get in an accident. Similarly, for situations where you get in an accident and get sued, the question is still whether or not you were negligent, and whether or not the other person was negligent. Being overweight may make you a bit more negligent than you otherwise would be, but it's not a noose around your neck.
So for those who have posted the scary, scary threats about losing insurance, being sued, or getting tickets for exceeding GAWR, I'd challenge you to bring forth verifiable proof of this occurring, absent either: a) an insane, stupidly overweight load; b) a rude driver that offended a police officer; or, c) evidence compelling a determination that an actual accident involving an overweight vehicle was the result of intentional misconduct by the driver, and not mere negligence (and on that last one...many times, auto insurance has to cover intentional acts as well).
