Toyota slammed for a change?

[SkyPup]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( <font color="red">Unfortunately, without the proper fuel, diesels would be ultimately banned due to the excessive emissions from the low quality fuels here in North America. </font>

That's not true. Ford, JD, Isuzu, and Cummins already have ultra low emissions. The Ford doesn't even smell like a diesel and produces less emissions than a V-10 and that is with the current fuel. )</font>

Don't believe that at all.

All diesel passenger vehicles in North America fall into Tier II Bin V and it is capped so only "X" number are allowed for sale based on total emissions per mile. The heavier trucks fall into a different BIN and they too are capped due to their excessive emissions....without ULSD, they would be illegal for sale under the new regulations.

You cannot have modern high tech diesels with antique low tech fuels..... ULSD is an "enabler" for all current and future diesel engine technologies.

One simple reason is that diesel SOx emissions immediately decrease 95% just by filling up the fuel tank with ULSD!!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Jagmandave]

I never said environmentalists are self serving, I said this group was, and I back up my contention with the simple fact of their article, and the language they used. They are trying to put themselves in the media spotlight by "taking on" Toyota, as if what they say is going to mean anything without proper methodology and backup. It's nonsense IMHO.
I think the figures Toyota quotes for the Prius are as accurate as any of the figures on MPG published by the EPA - they are accurate as far as the EPA tests go, and no further. They are meant to be used as a guide for comparison, and your driving habits and environment have a huge impact on the mileage you will get.
I can get 16 mpg in my Tundra - or 7, depending on how and where I drive. Does this mean Toyota lied when they claim the EPA says it'll get 16 city, 18 hiway? or does it mean that I have affected the mileage with my driving style and where/how I use the truck? What happens to my mileage if I idle outside the store for 30 minutes? Or let my tire pressures fall far below recommended amounts? Or don't change my oil for 30,000 miles? Or any number of other contributing factors?
This is why this article is patent nonsense. "I drove one of those and only got 25 mpg" or whatever...how can any intelligent person take this sort of statement at it's face value?

The fact is, hybrid cars are at their most efficient in stop and go city driving, where a "normal" car is at it's worst. Buying one for long hiway commutes might not be any more advantageous than a fuel efficient non hybrid version from the same manufacturer. As a consumer, you have to look at how you are going to use the vehicle and buy what's right for you. All Toyota is guilty of doing is providing more choices....

 

[inveresk]

When manufacturers consumption figures are obtained on a factory roller test bed with no wind resistance, then I think it's not unreasonable - and not self serving - for this group or any other to point out that these figures can't be replicated in any real driving environment. The manufacturers certainly don't make that point clear. However, I agree this isn't a Toyota specific point but applies across the board. And I agree that the way to use the manufacturers figures is on a comparative basis. They're useless otherwise.

 

[JeffRey30747]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I wonder who will be first to offer diesel engines in small trucks, Jeep seems to have a small lead at this point. )</font>

Actually, Toyota did market small diesel trucks in the US during the early to mid '80s. I have an uncle who wore out (300K + miles) an '81 model 2wd Toyota diesel pickup and is still driving a '84 Toyota 4wd diesel pickup on occasion. These little trucks never sold well and as a result, Toyota dropped them from the line. I think they probably didn't make enough profit to justify the extra paperwork and testing that the additional model required. So the fate of diesels in the US probably rests as much on public opinion and tastes as anything. I wouldn't mind have a small diesel engine in my Tacoma pickup but my wife doesn't like diesels at all.
TBN is not a representative cross section of the auto buying public and it will all come down to overall consumer tastes and the auto manufacturers perception of those tastes.

Jeff

 

[_RaT_]

<font color="blue"> TBN is not a representative cross section of the auto buying public and it will all come down to overall consumer tastes and the auto manufacturers perception of those tastes.

</font>

Perhaps your right but that attitude may change if or should I say when energy costs make anything more attractive that offers an alternative to the current fuel consumption we are getting. It certainly appears that in many European countries this bears out. The cost of diesel there I understand is quite a bit less then gasoline. Cheaper fuel, more MPG, it all makes to much sense. My problem is I need a compact pickup now. A diesel compact is not possible yet and even if they are, I don't doubt that our wonderful California Senators will see to it that we don't have these cancer causing diesel second hand smoke killing units in this state. I'm so happy they are looking out for us. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

 

[HGM]

Jeff,
you're right, there were Toyotas, Fords, Mazdas, among other diesel cars in the early 80's. They were the demise of diesel passenger vehicles here as well. They were nasty. The folks who owned them loved them. Others hated them for the smell,greese and noise they emitted.

 

[Jagmandave]

Yesterday I filled up with regular at $2.19 a gallon, diesel at the same station was $3.21. At those kind of differentials, it'll be hard to get a diesel passenger car or small truck market moving IMHO.

 

[Jagmandave]

Well, again, my problem with the article is not with what they proved, but what they didn't. For example, they did not prove that all Toyota hybrids are not attaining the mileage figures quoted, only that they didn't. A very large distinction in my book.
I'm not so much defending Toyota here, as complaining about the tactics used by certain groups to further their own agendas, and how our media plays along so willingly..........

 

[HGM]

I agree that they didnt really throw any numbers or proof out there with their claims. This discredits them to an extent. I have heard several people who drive or have been around them make those claims as well, so I dont doubt it totaly. I too would like to see the numbers as proof.

As for our media....... They have been anti American for years, anything involving this country must be bad. This starts controversey, thus increasing their ratings. Good stories dont make good stories(if that makes sense). People want their dirty laundry. This mentality our media thrives on has caused the misconception that anything imported must be a better quality in my opinion.

 

[Jagmandave]

Exactly.
If presented with a story like this, why wouldn't the media reporting it check it out first, call and ask a few questions? Seems like our media act more like an advertising agency or publicity firm than a responsible information source anymore...........