Grading Tractor and HD Box Blade vs. a small Dozer?

[moriboy]

And if you can lift the front of the dozer using the blade. I believe that, just like a tractor, the blade is usually capable of going below grade, which means on-grade you should be able to have it pushdown and lift the front of the dozer- if it can do "pushups" then it's fit

Correct you are.

 

[Piston]

Like the others said, The dozer is far better. Especially if you are cutting a side hill that is a discomfort or scary when operating a tractor.

The only thing I saw from the pictures. and it is very hard to tell because of the angle, is the wear on the bottom rollers. As the rollers wear (get smaller in Diameter where the track chain runs) and the track chain flanges wear, The chain bushing ends can encroach and eventually hit the outside roller flanges. It may be close. Also I think (not at all sure) the D3B has dry steering clutches so if it has set a long time don't be surprised if they are rusted and frozen. You will want to pick the front off the ground with the blade if you can and make sure the rollers turn (they turn hard by hand but they should turn) and pry them with a bar to make sure the bearings aren't whobbley.

As far as operating - no problem. You won't be efficient and you will be clumsy at first but so what.

Here is a test to do an old timer sent me when I was going to look at a JD450

What to look for -
Undercarriage wear (all the parts that make it move or come in contact with moving parts).
Rear Sprockets - pointy(bad) broad & flat (good)
Front tensioner, idler roller, and track rollers - are they nice & round or, cupped / U shaped, or out of round.
Track Link Bushings (the round part of the track chain that is driven by the sprockets) Are they symmetrical round? or do they have flat spots?
Track link wear (slop in the bushings) - are the tracks properly tensioned - is there a little sag in them or a huge amount of sag? Take a look at the track tensioner mechanism, it is usually a cylinder rod that pushes up against the front roller to take up track slack, how much travel is left to keep the tracks from excessive sag. You can tell by looking how many inches of travel are left at the front of the track rails.

Long track has 6 rollers.

Leaks - any leak anywhere is not good.
Hydraulic cylinders and rods, are they leaking? Rods pitted / gouged? Rod seals leaking ?

Steering breaks & steering clutches -
Drive it around turning left & right, get a feel for how far each lever has to be pulled back to steer it.
Find a place to lower & bury the blade, BOTH tracks should continue to spin at the same rate, this will tell you the steering clutches are still good, or at least have some life left in them.

Pull both steering levers back about half way at the same time so as to dis-engage the steering clutch but not so far that it activates the steering breaks, both tracks should roll to a stop, and the engine should not bog down, then slowly release one lever, the dozer will be powered by one track but should still go in a straight line. Repeat with the other lever to make sure the dozer will go in a straight line by being driven on only one track.

gg

Thanks for another great reply Gordon.
How do I "unfreeze" the steering clutches if they are rusted up and frozen?

I think I understand what you mean about the
Rollers, so I'll take a closer look next time I go over there. I'll actually "take it for a spin" next time so I should be able to provide a little more helpful info regarding what seems to work or not work.

I'll certainly try that tip about burying the blade to see if both tracks continue to spin at the same rate, that should be a fun one!
Regarding the track adjusters, is it similar to excavator tracks where you put grease in them to tighten the tracks? Or is it a mechanical adjuster? Do you have any tips on how to tell the "proper" sag of the tracks?

I'm not concerned with being inefficient while operating it, I look at it as a learning experience, and any chance I get to learn something new I take it.

 

[Piston]

The dozer is best for those tasks since it's heavy and stable. If you are thinking you'll save some dough by doing you projects yourself, I'm skeptical. If it's for fun and edumication, go for it.

Jim

Thanks Jim,
It's more for fun and edumacation.

 

[Piston]

If it will start and move as cold as it looks , good thing . Get it backed out and run it an hour . You will know what kind of shape the tracks are in pretty quick . Get off and do a walkaround on leaks , in the snow . Surely he has a place you can do a little pushing . The trans is something to consider with that many HRS . As far as work done it will bury your tractor and no flat tires guaranteed . Good luck , I enjoy your posts .

Good point about the flat tires! I'll ask more about the transmission and try to get a feel for it. If it was easier to trailer, I'm positive he would let me bring it to my place to try before I buy, but the transport is t the easiest thing.

(Although, he does have an older Autocar dump and 9t trailer, but it's no longer registered. )

Sounds like the price must be right . If it runs good goes forward and back turns both ways along with some of GGs advice buy it and play all summer. I bought an old cat with more hrs. than that used it for a couple years and was able to sell it for more than I paid without even painting it.

We didn't really come up with a price, I asked in general what he was thinking, and he sort of nonchalantly commented "I don't know, maybe $4,000 or so?"

So I'm "assuming" I'll be able to get it somewhat cheaper than that, all depends how much homemade wine I feed him next time I go there.

YUP!
RENT !!!
Unless you have barrels of money, and weeks of spare time, forget ... THAT particular D3.
If you really want a dozer, go buy a GOOD dozer, use it for your project, and then sell it!

I know it's hard to tell if a dozer is in good shape and "worth it" by pictures alone, but along the same lines, I'm just wondering how you can tell that this particular dozer isn't worth messing with? What sticks out in it that makes you say that? (Not asking in an argumentative way, just really wondering, and thanks for the reply!)

 

[Piston]

Hey Piston, what's up with the excavator you were looking at?

You're as bad as I am:laughing: Iron junkie!

Your right about the iron junkie thing!

I did buy the excavator and it's sitting at my place now. I'm waiting to have it trailered up to my NH land until spring time, which considering we are supposed to get 1.5'-2' of snow tomorrow, seems farther and farther away.

 

[Piston]

I started out renting a John Deere 450G dozer on my land and quickly realized it was too small for what I wanted to do. It couldn't break through the hard packed, dry red clay, and when pushing a full blade of dirt, it would quickly become too much and spin its tracks or kill the engine. It was great at shaping and spreading loose dirt. I bought a bigger Case dozer similar in size to a D6 at 170 hp. It does everything I want a dozer to do. It's also a never ending project of fixing things. I could never afford to rent one to do everything I want to do, or hire it out, so wrenching on it is how I save money. Hoses go all the time, cylinders fail one at a time until you've rebuilt every one of them. Then I think they start the process all over again. Branches are your worse enemy. Never run over them, they will catch on the tracks and then get through your belly pans and break something. I had a small, green pine branch bust off the oil sensor on the side of my engine block that created quite the mess of oil spraying through the engine covers!!!

Buying means that you have it there 24/7 and you can use it for as long as you want, or just let it sit until it's needed. Never expect it to work right away, there will always be something to fix on it. Renting means killing yourself to get the most out of it while you have it. Usually it will run perfectly while you have it, but hoses break, things happen, so even renting brand new, don't be surprised if you break down.

As to your original question, I personally hated my box blade. I never became proficient at it and found it to be extremely frustrating to smooth anything out with it. I tried digging ditches along my trails with it, but I just created a mess. I tried using the back blade for filling trenches when running water lines, but found it painful twisting in my seat going backwards all the time. After sitting around in my yard for ten years, I gave it to a friend who is now experiencing the same issues I had with it.....


Whatever you do, NEVER GET STUCK in the mud with a dozer!!!!!

Hope this helps,
Eddie

Thanks Eddie!
Interesting note regarding getting beat up by the dozer! Not too much suspension on those things huh!
I do know I'd have to rebuild some of the cylinders right off the bat. There is one that leaks really bad, which is why he has the blade propped up on the rock like he does, so this is something I will certainly need to account for.

As far as not getting it stuck, I'm pretty sure I'll end up leaning that
Lesson the hard way, not that I won't heed to your advice, It's just that getting it stuck is one of those things I'll probably end up doing

 

[moriboy]

If it starts, runs, drives, and doesn't do anything weird, $4K (or less) is a great buy.

 

[Piston]

Just proves how true the old axiom is "To each, their own".

Years back I purchased a well worn J.D. 350B crawler loader. I thoroughly enjoyed working with it but found it too small to be efficient for my intended use. Also it quickly became a money pit when the reverser and final drives needed work.

I then sold it for less than I had paid for it. I probably paid too much to begin with. Like was suggested by others, I should have hired a professional to at least get his advice while still realizing there are no guarantees.

Would I like to have another crawler? I certainly would. But my lesson was learned. Not for me. I am older and wiser now and also being older, no longer have the strength to be my own mechanic on heavy equipment such as crawlers. Although I am still open to renting one should the need arise.

Oh well, that's my story.

Old oak, thanks for the story. Just in case you want to relive it again, he does have a 350 that he will sell as well (although he says this one needs steering clutches)

 

[DieselBound]

At $4k I'd seriously consider buying it!

If one can get a couple weeks worth of work out of it before anything really craps out then you're pretty much a break-even.

I know that one of my neighbors had this big old articulating IH beast and he had to have it's backhoe boom cylinder rebuilt. Parts alone were $700! (I had this same shop repair a small cylinder for my B7800 and that came to $200).

I'd look around and see what sorts of issues these dozers of that vintage have. I recall reading that some smaller Cases (or was it JDs?) had crappy rear differentials which tended to bust up. I was aiming for a Cat D4 LGP: there was one that popped up on IronPlanet that went for $20k (I was momentarily interested, but was hard pressed to justify- I ended up buying my NX5510 as I had more of a need for a larger tractor than for a dozer); it looked like it had been through heck, welded up guards over busted out everything; only 3k hours I think, and just about everything showed as checking out good on it.

 

[Piston]

I appreciate all the replies so far. Certainly still interested in any stories of a small dozer vs box blade from others who have used
Both for the same job! As well as anything further to check/test that may have been missed.

How are those older 3204 engines that this has? Are they reliable? Easy/hard to rebuild? Fuel monsters or not too bad? I'd think being a small machine, the fuel consumption wouldn't kill me?
(And likely a non issue compared to the cost of repairs?)

I can only "assume" that replacement parts for this little dozer would be a lot cheaper than a larger sized dozer?