Tractor for 25ac - hilly, previously logged - input greatly appreciated

[headleyj]

Ok guys have some questions. 1st of all I'd like to say I've done a ton of reading here and your input is highly valued and often times I find myself saying "huh, they're right, I would have never thought of that" so kudos! Keep it up!

My situation:
25 acres building a new house almost complete. Property was logged before we bought it tree tops are down everywhere. Terrain is all hills/ hollers with 3 creeks running through. Some hills are so steep I wouldn't take a truck down them (and we did some crazy stuff in the teenage years hittin the mud and the coal strip pits). These would be strictly 4wheeler territory if I had one.

I'd like to bring the usable logs up for firewood (personal and sell it maybe), maintain our 1400 gravel driveway, keep the logging trails in decent shape (some are steep but I wouldn't go up/ down anything I felt aprehensive about) and bush-hog the areas that are sprouting up that are seeing sun now due to the logging (which is a lot of area some on hills). We have several stumps not too worried about pulling stumps, but a FEL is desired to move/ get rid of the tree bottoms that are laying there.

So I've read get more hp than you think you need. Budget is 10-12k. 4wd is highly desired due to terrain. So I've looked at Kubota, Kioti, Ford, Long, JD all the main ones and some not so mainstream. I'm not opposed to getting an older one (cheap horsepower basically) but the older ones (ie: Ford 3000-4000 series) are a project waiting to happen basically. I'm mechanically inclined and have rebuilt motors and worked on trucks all my life, but I'm just not up for rebuilding a tractor to use. When I want to use it I want it to go, I don't want to have to dicker with X, Y and Z, pat my head and rub my tummy to get it to start ya know.

All that said I'd like to have 35-40 engine hp shuttle-shift preferred, std trans next, then hydro (I like simplicity and the hydro worries me a bit) I don't need cruise either. Ive found the following tractors:

1. JD 790 4x4, FEL, new, bush hog, std trans, R4, asking $13500 This seems a bit small and have read it's a bit tippy which with my terrain probably isn't the best choice.

2. 01 Kioti LK 3054, 650h, shuttle-shift, 4wd, R4, 5 bush hog, 5 yardbox, 6 BD, 12 PHD, FEL, $11k. The guy used to put yards in with it so its been used semi-commercially.
a. Is this a good price seems a bit high for the Kioti with this many hours.

3. 1997 Ford 2120, FEL, R1, 6'GB, pallet forks, PHD, remotes in rear, canopy, 650h, asking $14.5k
a. Why are these so expensive? It's 10 yrs old yes it's 43hp engine but just seems high..thoughts?

4. 0? Kubota 3400DT, shuttle (so I was told) FEL, 100 hrs, R4, FEL $13900 this guy doesn't act like he wants to come down at all so probably outside my $ range.

So there's what I've found. Weight would be a big help with the larger trees for sure and the R1's would be great for traction since 90% of the time it'll be in the woods not maintaining a manicured lawn or anything.

Now I'm leaning towards the Kioti since it's across town, the guy has a 16 Corn Pro trailer too he'd deal on and it has about every attachment I'd ever need. I'd really like to get the 2120 (or a JD 990 - $$$!!) because of it's size/ hp, but it just seems high for what it is.

Is there something I haven't thought of? Pros/ cons to the above units. Any input/ thoughts/ suggestions is greatly appreciated guys.

 

[3RRL]

I normally shy away from telling a guys to look at the new Chinese tractors sold by some of our reputable Chinese tractor dealers such as:
Tommy at Affordable Tractor Sales
Ronald at Ranch Hand Tractors
Chip at Artrac
Because most guys have a negative outlook on them from the start. That insures popularity and pricing remains low on those machines.
But there are a lot of no nonsense Chinese tractor owners on TBN that have gotten quite a bit of tractor (NEW, size, hp & 4wd) plus loader and a bunch of implements within your budget. You sound like one of those guys that could handle older technology and not afraid to turn a wrench. The new ones are EPA conforming and are very nice with lots of features found on much more popular and more expensive brands.

Your parcel is exactly the same size and sounds as rural/wild as mine. I went with a 55hp Kama and found it meets my needs quite nicely. I was looking at 35hp tractors from the big 3 but found this tractor instead and within my budget. I'm glad I went with the extra weight and hp. Sometimes I wish I had a larger tractor. The reputable dealers I listed carry a large inventory of parts, upgrades, and great service, so that is not an issue.

 

[SnowRidge]

From the description of your property, I would suggest looking at a Power Trac, if you could find a used 1430 or bigger within your price range.

 

[SLOBuds]

I think you have a lot to do on that parcel and might not be able to get all of those things done with the available budget. You've got the right idea in terms of implements.

The hp range you are thinking about would work, but it does seem a bit low in my opinion. I would feel better if you were looking at a 45-55 hp machine. But that's kind of subjective, and like I said, you will probably be able to get all of your work done with the smaller configuration. Just take longer.

'Yes' to 4wd. Hills and whatnot. I would definitely keep that on the 'must have' list.

Transmission - with the type of detailed work that you're looking at, it's going to be pretty busy up there with a manual transmission. You will be able to get larger HP per $ spent with a manual. Just be sure you know what you're getting into. LOTS of folks would have nothing other than manual.

Assuming your budget is fixed, maybe you could consider phasing in the equipment. Get tractor with loader first, then box scraper, then brush hog. 4x4, with as much hp as you can get.

So my opinion of minimal configurations would be 4x4, manual transmission, loader, largest hp I could get. Phase in box blade and brush hog. Box blade would be next. Brush hog last.

I myself like used equipment - but I have them checked out by an independent mechanic so I know it is solid.

Other than that - just keep on looking, and reading TBN, before you buy. You have a very good grasp of your basic needs - great job! But you might find slight changes to your opinions over time.

And your budget might increase too!

Good luck.

 

[Erik_in_Hoyt]

I think you're right that the JD790 is too small/light for what you want to do.
The Kioti sounds like a good deal, and the advice about chinese/Jinma tractors is also good - I have yet to hear anything but good about the 3 names 3rrl suggested - and what you'd be getting is a brand new "1950's" tractor there. Generally more wrench work required than the more expensive Korean & Japanese machines, but not as much as a 40-50 year old Ac or IHC machine. (and there are some killer "package deals" to be had on these things!)
Shuttle shift is still a manual tranny, it's just a lever on the column that lets you switch from forward to reverse without having to change gears. It's REAL nice to have. especially when doing loader work.

good luck and happy hunting!

 

[headleyj]

Hey guys thanks a ton for the answers so far - very good advice. The Chinese tractors I've heard to shy away from for resale, dealer network and reliability reasons. That's all heresay though. I will take another look at these. Power-Trac is interesting to say the least! A bit pricey for me though. I will investigate the Chinese tractors as soon as I can.

when I think of shuttle shift I think of my brother in laws JD 4320 (I think) with a Power reverser - makes loader work a snap!

 

[twabscs]

I'm with the guys saying to increase your budget and get the right tractor for the job. Tractors lose very little in value over the years, so finance what you need and be done with it - Appropriately equipped tractors are a JOY to have around and pay back in spades. I started with a TC40D with loader for my initial 40 acres and it was a bit small, IMO. I would go with something in the 40-50 HP range for your situation.

My two cents,

 

[john_bud]

I'm not opposed to getting an older one (cheap horsepower basically) but the older ones (ie: Ford 3000-4000 series) are a project waiting to happen basically.

For your needs and budget, a Ford 3910 or 3930 would be great. Much easier to find a 3939 in 4wd. I do disagree with your generalization that all old tractors are unreliable. They aren't. But like all used items, some are in pizz poor shape and others are close to new. The majority are some place in the middle. Go to a few tractor auctions and see what is available, you may be surprised.

jb

PS - if you do get a China tractor, don't lick the paint...



on edit -- I looked at prices of 4wd 3930's with loaders and they appear to be over your budget. Sorry!

 

[woodlandfarms]

You have a topo with scale of your property? I have a very hilly property and while a straight CUT would have been my desire, the hills killed the deal and I went with Power-Trac. Great machines, only downside is you have to be a hands on type.... There are a few wide track Tractors available but not very cheap.

I also thought about buying a TYM or less expensive CUT (chinese) and putting dualies on them...

Carl

 

[Northland]

Your property sounds an aweful lot like mine...complete with the skidder trails.

I bought a 30 HP Kubota B7800 because of the width and lenght (more stability) over most smaller CUTS. Even more important to me was that it has 15" of ground clearance and the bottom is fairly well shielded from damage. I have 1000+ cords of maple tree tops on the ground. I use a bucket grapple and carry-all to harvest them back to my staging area -see
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104654&goto=newpost

While I like my B7800 I wish I had bought a heavier tractor for the bush work -the L2800/3400 would have been perfect.

So, I would suggest you consider width, lenght, ground clearance and weight. I think any brand (at the right price) will serve you well.

 

[MossRoad]

Has anyone said welcome to TBN?

Bloomington is a beautiful area. Congratulations on your new home.

From the sounds of it, you should first measure the slopes that you think you need to drive on and find out the actual degree angle. You can eliminate many tractors right off the bat if they won't handle the slopes.

You may want to consider a logging arch for hauling logs out of there with a smaller tractor and a grapple bucket for cleaning up.

Or you may want to look into a large used AG tractor with a winch. Large HP AG tractors can be found pretty cheap. Use it for a few years to log out the place, then sell it and downsize to a unit for maintaining the property.

 

[Z-Michigan]

I would probably be looking a bit bigger than what you're looking at, mostly for dealing with the trees. A utility would be ideal, but would have to be very used to be in your price range. Next best bet would maybe be a used Kubota L4200/4300/4400, with the prior two more likely to be in your price range with a FEL. Unfortunately many will have R4 tires and I would strongly recommend R1 tires for your uses. I personally would avoid Chinese tractors, but the Koreans are pretty good and less $$ than US or Japanese makes - Kioti, TYM or Montana (?? on the last one - I think they claim some sort of US connection). Actually the Kioti you list sounds pretty good; I would prefer bigger, but it sounds like a good setup. 650 hours isn't all that much if reasonable maintenance has been done and it hasn't been abused (riding the clutch is the worst). Also, maybe you can dicker and get the price down a bit more.

FYI, tractors are more durable, reliable, and easier to work on than practically anything else with an engine. Their technology doesn't change very fast either. Not saying you want an antique, but I wouldn't worry much about somewhat used tractors.

 

[Double Orange]

I Just wanted to poke my head in and say, Welcome aboard!
Feel free to keep the questions coming.
Frank

 

[headleyj]

Hey Fellas - can't thank you all enough for your insight. To answer a few of the questions
yes I have a topo - see attached

Can't increase the budget any - already woudl be financing 1/2 that @ ~ 8%.

I examined the Chinese tractors - mmmmm...just doesn't sit right with me. if I'm going to be tightening stuff all the time and have no warranty - I might as well get an older "domestic" and have parts at my fingertips and people who have experience with them.

Northland - A grapple would be tough as nails, but shew those are pricey - unless you build it yourself, which could be done with some friends.

I looked at the Power-Trac's - very interesting! A bit procey for me though I think.

I looked at arch's some time ago and considered a Kodiak or Grizzly (yamaha bias) - but there's just so much I can't do with a 4 wheeler. Arch with a tractor yes. Would feel much safer!

Tires - R1's definetly preferred! If I can' reduce the filesizes I'll include some property pics.

Only "limit" on size is I want it to fit in a 9x7 gar door so I can keep it in the bsmt. to work on if needed and warm!

I'm rethinking my original plan as we have a 4 mo old (our 1st) and the regular cab is quickly becoming cramped. Coupled with the fact I've never owned a tractor! I don't think an older one would be a bad place to start. It's easy to go gunho off jump go (hey that rhymed) and get a newer XYZ brand, but..... an older one with cheap hp, FEL, sheer weight might be a good place to start that learning curve. They'll most likely be 2wd but there is 1 major skidder path that a 2wd would make it up easy. I'd cuss like a sailor the 1st time I had to work on it but I'd cuss harder when the truck has no room to carry mom and Junior I think.

Well I'm off to search for older ones. I can find alot of those in town - which is nice! Guys, can't thank you enough for everything thus far. This site is awesome. I'm laying tile this weekend so may not have a chance to look until next week. I'll definetly keep you posted on what I find.

Thanks again!!!!!!!!

 

[SnowRidge]

Only "limit" on size is I want it to fit in a 9x7 gar door so I can keep it in the bsmt. to work on if needed and warm!

I don't think you are going to be able to find a tractor big enough for the task you need to do that will fit in your basement, possibly excepting some with a fold down ROPS. For your hills, a ROPS is a must.

I suggest you measure your actual clearance. Some 7 foot garage doors don't actually have a full 7 foot opening, due to adjustment problems or installation errors. You also need a little extra space just in case of bounce, or to accomodate height increases due to approach and departure angles, if there is any slope under or near the door.

Just a little more to think about.

 

[nightrodjc]

I would stay away from the jd790, good tractor but not real stable .
Before my current jd4510 I had a jd870 with 440 loader very stable tractor and you can get them for around 10000.00. Mine was a 95 model with 800 hours on it and clutch tranny. JD still sells this tractor as a 990, same tractor just a little more H.P.

 

[Northland]

try

http://www.tractorbynet.com/classifieds/ViewCat.php?CatID=25

Used Tractors at TractorHouse.com: John Deere Tractors, used farm tractors and farm equipment, Case IH, New Holland, Agco, Caterpillar.
http://business.listings.ebay.com/_...91953&fccl=1&fts=2&coaction=compare&save=Save

and eBay – tractor, john Deere tractor and kubota tractor items on eBay.com. Find IT on eBay.

 

[Renze]

The Chinese tractors I've heard to shy away from for resale, dealer network and reliability reasons.

If the market "talks" the resale value of new chinese tractors down from hearsay- you need to buy a 3 year old low houred chinese bargain !!


For 25 acre, or 10 hectare, which partially needs to be cleared, i wouldnt go with a compact, and definately not with a lightweight asian... you need farm tractor, to have a little extra meat to beat on.

If you're mechanically minded, mid 80's Zetors are tough as nails and will take some abuse in land clearing. Due to their build and weight they are a stable base for a heavy front loader, and stable on hills too if set on 70" trackwidth. The small issues that may occur are easy to fix by an average home wrencher.

 

[Glowplug]

Welcome to TBN!

My only information, whether of value or not, is Kubota L4400!!

 

[ktm250rider]

The pics probably dont do it justice, but the hills dont look all that bad. Ive got one on my property that I went down the other day. Put it in low and kept the bucket low. Keep foot off the brake and clutch and let the trany/engine brake down the hill. Hand was on loader control to drop bucket if I got out of control. Going up is different since I have a road around it.

Budgets are tough. If you get too small of a tractor youll be trading in very shortly. Im using a 4510 on my property. Pulling logs and cleaning up around the 50 acres. Even if I paid double for mine, I would have gotten my moneys worth. From plowing snow, putting in lawn, building stone walls, lifting garage wall that fell of second floor deck (saved tearing the whole thing apart), logging, moving dirt, going to the mail box, pulling the kids in the trailer. The things are priceless.