Buying Advice Tractor For Tree Work

[DrCornwallis]

Greetings Brother. I'll say welcome to TBN anyway even though you have been a lurker.

Here are my thoughts on your question - some you may not like or want to hear.

First of all I think you're on the right track for tractor size given what you want to to. You're not in the logging / timber business you're in the yard clean up business. A small SCUT will carry and move more than you can by hand in a shorter amount of time and (most importantly) saves wear & tear on your body. And I think that's pretty much what you're looking for as I understand it.

I would suggest you look at a flail mower instead of a rotary cutter - especially if you're doing more urban / residential type work. A flail is less likely to send something flying thru a neighboring yard (or window) and since you are doing "for hire" work there is always liability to think about. There are threads upon threads about flail mowers and quality of Chinese vs Italian vs whatever else for the price so I'll let you wade thru those arguments on your own should you opt to go that route.

I would suggest you get something along a 4' w/ hydraulic side shift that will let you mow closer to buildings & obstacles than a rotary cutter. It is also shorter overhang off the back and makes a pretty good counterweight for your loader work.


Now - on to where I think you are headed for murky waters . . .

I picked your leading choice for some rough numbers.

Mahindra Max26XL
Tractor 1863 lbs
Loader 627 lbs
Liquid Ballast 47 lbs/Tire (Assuming Industrial Tires)

Rough total 2584 lbs

I looked for a good bit and most 6ft wide dump trailers stopped at 10' and the majority of 12' long were 7' wide but I did find a couple 6' x 12' to grab some rough numbers on and the trailer Tare Weight was ~2500 lbs and up.

So now you're looking at 5084 lbs without any implement weight (i.e. whatever mower you pick). You also have to factor in the weight of ALL your other gear, tools, saws, fuel, etc into mix.

You have 6400 lbs towing and 11360 lbs Max Combined with a truck that comes in at 4400 lbs and change depending on model & cab config.

To translate all that technical mumbo jumbo to simple English - you're pushing the limits of your trucks abilities and, safety issues of that aside, you're going to cause it to wear out components faster.


So now's the part you probably don't want to hear.

You have to decide if you're a F/T firefighter that does tree work on the side or if you're in the tree business F/T and a firefighter on the side (and trust me I know some F/T guys here that run some pretty big cattle / dairy farms and being a Firefighter 9 days a month is actually their side job).

Given the year model of your Tacoma I can understand you not wanting to turn right around and upgrade vehicles and that's ok. And I'm not saying that you should, but if I were you I would be putting that upgrade on my radar with-in the next couple years -OR- I would be all over craigslist looking for a very well used but serviceable 1/2 to 3/4 ton. A flatbed would be ideal as you could put implements, attachments, loader bucket (or grapple) on the deck & tow the tractor in the dump trailer as planned.

As a semi-related side note - I have a 1997 Taco Extra Cab 4x4 V6 that I bought brand new in '96 - I'm back to driving it again b/c my nice 2015 RAM is in the shop. Said Taco has 332K miles on it and the running gear is tight as ever & uses no oil so I know what they are capable of if you treat them right.

I wish you the very best what ever route you decide to take.

Thanks for all the insight, I really appreciate it and you hit the nail on the head as far as what I'm looking to do. I do plan to upgrade in the next couple years, weather I'll keep the Tacoma as a daily driver and buy a work truck or just buy a larger truck, it's on the radar regardless. Either way I would like to eventually be into a Ram 3500 4x4 Cummins DRW.

If business continues, then hopefully I'm a full time tree guy and part time FF. If I can get the work I'll certainly do it.

I really love those 90's Toyota pickups, they were the best. That's a really cool truck! I've always wanted one but they're hard to come by for reasonable money in good shape.

 

[bigtiller]

I drove a Swinger articulating loader one summer. It was ideal for yard work but it wouldn't help with your light brush mowing. Used prices aren't to bad.

MachineryTrader.com | SWINGER Wheel Loaders For Sale - 4 Listings - Page 1.

 

[TMGT]

Since it sounds like you want to expand the business I would suggest seeing if you can swing a B26, it should work for you now and if you're able to expand it should still be capable enough to work for you. I've seen a few used ones without backhoes but I'm not sure if you can order them like that but it would save a bit of money if you don't need the hoe.

Any of the options would be on the very edge of your trucks capacity though, maybe look into getting a used gas 3/4 ton truck, around here they go pretty inexpensive but still have plenty of capacity for what you want to do.

 

[DrCornwallis]

I think your going to have to look at another truck if you want to put a CUT on it with bush hog and FEL with grapple. No way that Tacoma is going to handle your load legally or even illegally for very long due to the weight allowances.

I think you should look at a used full sized truck or even a 1 ton flat bed for your business (it will all be tax deductible) and just use your Tacoma for commuting to your FF job.

As for tractors I don't think any one listed would be out of the question although I think JD are overrated and over priced. A Kubota B26 would be great if you can find a good used one, the new ones would be way over budget for a part time job (I think around $40K with grapple and 3 PH). I do lots of stuff with my B26 that you wouldn't believe possible with a 26 HP tractor but I would never have considered one if I had not got a fantastic price on mine used.

Since you will be only transporting a short distance, lift capacity should not be an issue, just make more trips, however lift height has to be considered especially if you will be dumping into a dump trailer with sides. This should be your critical factor in choosing a tractor. Check that specification out carefully before buying. Your trailer length is also going to be a critical factor if you plan to haul your tractor with bush hog you will need at least 16 Feet and preferably 18 feet of trailer length to prevent overhang. Best way to get that is to go to a dealer and measure it then get a trailer to match (don't forget to include the tailwheel hangover on the bush hog). Also WRT the trailer, you need some wiggle room to balance the load because of tongue weight on you tow vehicle, you may not be able to pull the tractor fully to the front so that has to be considered.
With my 20 foot trailer and B26 (no other attachments on it) I have to back up from the front of the trailer at least 4 feet to keep from overloading a 1/2 ton pickup.

Lots of issues that you need to address before buying a tractor and trailer.

Lots of good points. A 1 ton flatbed is what I'm looking at for down the road, as well as a tri axle 21ft dump. I like the B26 but as you pointed out, new they're out of budget and if I'm going to be looking in the 40k range, I would probably start looking into CTL's. Also, I don't foresee having much use for a back hoe on my tractor. One of the reasons I want a tractor is I actually want one to potentially supplement a CTL down the road.

I actually hadn't considered the length of the bush hog, as I've initially been just thinking about the length with FEL. If I do need to bush hog, I also have access to a 21ft flat bed trailer and my fathers 1 ton Ram Cummins DRW for the occasional job.

 

[DrCornwallis]

Since it sounds like you want to expand the business I would suggest seeing if you can swing a B26, it should work for you now and if you're able to expand it should still be capable enough to work for you. I've seen a few used ones without backhoes but I'm not sure if you can order them like that but it would save a bit of money if you don't need the hoe.

Any of the options would be on the very edge of your trucks capacity though, maybe look into getting a used gas 3/4 ton truck, around here they go pretty inexpensive but still have plenty of capacity for what you want to do.

If I could order one without back hoe and it was a little more affordable, it would be a serious consideration. Also, a 3/4 or 1 ton gas truck isn't out of the question, I've got my eyes open for a good deal.

Edit: also, what is the big difference between the B26 and the B 2650?

 

[TMGT]

The B26 is basically the same size as the b2650 but everything attached to it is different, the loader backhoe is integrated onto the tractor, not an add on and is much sturdier. It has more loader lift capacity and height, more flow on the hydraulics. It does have the same 1.1L engine in the B2601 as apposed to the 1.3L in the B2650.
There are also some cosmetic/ergonomic differences in the sheetmetal and operators platform.
Overall the B26 was designed for loader and backhoe work as opposed to be added on like the B2650.
They are commonly used as rentals to give you an idea of durability.

 

[DrCornwallis]

The B26 is basically the same size as the b2650 but everything attached to it is different, the loader backhoe is integrated onto the tractor, not an add on and is much sturdier. It has more loader lift capacity and height, more flow on the hydraulics. It does have the same 1.1L engine in the B2601 as apposed to the 1.3L in the B2650.
There are also some cosmetic/ergonomic differences in the sheetmetal and operators platform.
Overall the B26 was designed for loader and backhoe work as opposed to be added on like the B2650.
They are commonly used as rentals to give you an idea of durability.

Awesome, thanks!

 

[Code54]

Being in FL is a good thing for a small tractor and tree work - no mountains or hills (mostly flat) as the small tractors with trees/brush etc can get unstable quick on slopes. I use a BX25 around the house and have found it does lift more than its rating but as you lift the load it quickly loses stability.

One thing to account for is a grapple is heavy and that quickly steals lift capacity from a smaller machine (my 48' grapple I use on my other tractor is around 600lbs alone)

Also dump trailers are really heavy for their size and it will eat up your towing capacity. I have a 12k, 12' and it goes 3200lbs empty. Love the trailer but it is not light but if you want them to last they need some steel in them.

Have you looked at the used Dingo market? Around here a nice wheeled Dingo is around 5K and have seen them go for far less. Not big lift capacity but great for brush and would be real easy to haul or tow. If nothing else it sure beats lifting and carrying everything! If you with sweeping turns they are pretty good at not tearing up the grass - just no counter rotation turns.
Dingo not help with the brush hogging (you can get a mower for them however) but for around $3500 you can get a nice walk behind brush mower (Billy goat, etc) and if your not doing big jobs it may let you find if the jobs are really there and make some money with little investment. Also can easily haul that with your Toyota and gives you two different machines for 2 different jobs (if one breaks down you can still do jobs with the other while waiting on repairs.)

Here is a sample of what I am referring to:
TORO DINGO-322 Auction | TORO DINGO-322 for Sale Online

Good luck on with whatever you decide.

 

[mike69440]

For a small tractor, the Max26 has a very strong 3Pt, as it will handle 1 ton for skidding. The loader has good lift, weak curl as the cylinders are tiny. The tractor is not heavy enough to use the loader for any serious tree work. You can add Counter weight to get up to 3000 lbs. For logging you would really want 35 40 HP. like a 2538 or 2545, but the Max26 is great as a "chore" tractor. Get the shuttle, 2 speed hydro is lacking.

 

[check]

Most "utility" trailers won't have the capacity; my 5.5x10 will hold 2100 lbs. on its deck, which isn't much more than a bare mini tractor. And the ramps aren't up to a tractor, either. Going bigger on the trailer will bring the weight up quickly.

No problem. If you want more capacity, just go with a 5000 pound axle instead of the 3500 pound axle. And my BX25 weighs 2700 pounds soaking wet, with the FEL and the backhoe attached. Subtract about 400 to 500 pounds if you remove the backhoe.

 

[TMGT]

Being in FL is a good thing for a small tractor and tree work - no mountains or hills (mostly flat) as the small tractors with trees/brush etc can get unstable quick on slopes. I use a BX25 around the house and have found it does lift more than its rating but as you lift the load it quickly loses stability.

One thing to account for is a grapple is heavy and that quickly steals lift capacity from a smaller machine (my 48' grapple I use on my other tractor is around 600lbs alone)

Also dump trailers are really heavy for their size and it will eat up your towing capacity. I have a 12k, 12' and it goes 3200lbs empty. Love the trailer but it is not light but if you want them to last they need some steel in them.

Have you looked at the used Dingo market? Around here a nice wheeled Dingo is around 5K and have seen them go for far less. Not big lift capacity but great for brush and would be real easy to haul or tow. If nothing else it sure beats lifting and carrying everything! If you with sweeping turns they are pretty good at not tearing up the grass - just no counter rotation turns.
Dingo not help with the brush hogging (you can get a mower for them however) but for around $3500 you can get a nice walk behind brush mower (Billy goat, etc) and if your not doing big jobs it may let you find if the jobs are really there and make some money with little investment. Also can easily haul that with your Toyota and gives you two different machines for 2 different jobs (if one breaks down you can still do jobs with the other while waiting on repairs.)

Here is a sample of what I am referring to:
TORO DINGO-322 Auction | TORO DINGO-322 for Sale Online

Good luck on with whatever you decide.

I was going to mention something like a tracked dingo type machine but after seeing a tree company using one at my dad's property I would say I wouldn't want one if I was worried about damage to turf. They weren't being hard with it but afterwords there was quite a bit more damage in the yard then I was expecting, I've done similar work at his house moving a lot of rounds and brush and I didn't do nearly the damage with my tractor and turfs.

 

[TMGT]

If I was going to go buy new today it would be a B26 with this grapple Best Rated 55 Inch Wicked Root Rake Grapple from Everything Attachments

The grapple would work well on any of the tractors you selected though.

 

[Grandad4]

If I was going to go buy new today it would be a B26 with this grapple Best Rated 55 Inch Wicked Root Rake Grapple from Everything Attachments

The grapple would work well on any of the tractors you selected though.

This was my suggestion early in this thread. Perfect light footprint yet industrial duty machine for this type of work. Having done similar work for years on my own property, I can't imagine not needing the backhoe, as doing some kind of digging seemed to be a part of every project I ran into. Finding a good used one is a good way to save vs. buying new.

 

[jb1390]

Bush hogging will only account for a very small amount of what it will do, and I was actually looking at some of the smaller 48" bush hogs from EA, if that makes a difference. I only bring up bush hogging as often get asked by clients in semi rural areas while I'm working on their property if I also clear land, and 90% of the time it's a small acre or less plot of land with brush only just a little too thick to mow over with a ZTR.

I also should have specified, this isn't for logging or tree care in the woods, but rather residential tree care and removal. Right now, I have a 2017 Toyota Tacoma 4x4, max towing capacity is 6400 lbs, but obviously I'd prefer to keep it well under that. I'm looking into purchasing a small dump trailer to tow it with and use on site, either a 5x10 or 6x12, probably a 6x12, both have brakes.

The rated lift capacity is important, however, I'm looking at a CUT/SCUT as a cost effective alternative to a Mini track loader, most of which have lift capacities in the 550lb for the smaller ones to 1500lb range for the largest, most powerful and a price tag ranging from around 33k to 45k.

Generally I won't be lifting heavy stuff for cutting, all the wood will typically be cut on the ground and the tractor will simply be used to load the debris into the dump trailer for transport or to stack it at the curb for the grapple truck to come pick up.

I'm a big fan of bigger is typically better, however, I'm limited in size by both my truck and the properties I'm working on.

My ideal setup would be a small frame compact track loader, however, I'm limited by budget. A CTL is not only about 25k more than a CUT, it would mandate I buy a bigger truck.

I'd recommend checking out the Mahindra 1526. I believe they are similar price to the MAX 26, but you get a lot more tractor. They are also physically larger, which has its pros and cons for you.

You should go to a dealer and demo one before you get your mind too set on any particular model.

The small machines you are looking at would all have difficulty lifting a log using tongs over the side of a dump trailer. Make sure you think through everything you may want the tractor to do, and try to ensure you get the right machine.

 

[DrCornwallis]

This was my suggestion early in this thread. Perfect light footprint yet industrial duty machine for this type of work. Having done similar work for years on my own property, I can't imagine not needing the backhoe, as doing some kind of digging seemed to be a part of every project I ran into. Finding a good used one is a good way to save vs. buying new.

That's the exact grapple I was looking at. I read good things about it hear, glad to hear some more good about it.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

That's the exact grapple I was looking at. I read good things about it hear, glad to hear some more good about it.

Doc, a BX23S is also a great machine for working in tight places, close second choice along with the B26. I have a BX25 and real pleased with the 1500 hours I have put on it since 2011. Here are some pictures of my BX at work with tree stuff. I moved that Madrona log over 100' mostly sloped ground to the cut up area. It was part of a 15 Ac logging slash pile on a side slope we gleaned 30 cords of wood out of summer/fall a year ago. The tree is a 10" trunk maple. They have massive root system, moved the whole tree across a creek with the BX. The new BX 23S has an option for a skid steer type FEL assembly that has a forklift attachment and a light weight grapple that will not consume all your lifting power. Worth looking into closely and price compare with the B26. Those options are also available for the 26.



Ron

 

[TMGT]

Doc, a BX23S is also a great machine for working in tight places, close second choice along with the B26. I have a BX25 and real pleased with the 1500 hours I have put on it since 2011. Here are some pictures of my BX at work with tree stuff. I moved that Madrona log over 100' mostly sloped ground to the cut up area. It was part of a 15 Ac logging slash pile on a side slope we gleaned 30 cords of wood out of summer/fall a year ago. The tree is a 10" trunk maple. They have massive root system, moved the whole tree across a creek with the BX. The new BX 23S has an option for a skid steer type FEL assembly that has a forklift attachment and a light weight grapple that will not consume all your lifting power. Worth looking into closely and price compare with the B26. Those options are also available for the 26.


Ron

Just to clarify I was talking about the B26 tlb, price and performance aren't even close to the BX, the B2601 without backhoe is fairly close in price to a BX tlb.
I like the BX but it'll be a struggle to get over the side of a dump trailer and has less lift capacity, I wouldn't want to go less then the B for your application.

Do you need to buy new for finance reason's can you look at used?

 

[Tractor Seabee]

I have loaded many dump trailers with my BX25 FEL. For the high sided ones I just put down some blocks to get another 6-8" and cleared them fine.

Ron

 

[TMGT]

I have loaded many dump trailers with my BX25 FEL. For the high sided ones I just put down some blocks to get another 6-8" and cleared them fine.

Ron

Yes it will load them but but will limit what can be loaded and how much, I load brush and to make a worthwhile load it has to be stacked which is a struggle for the height with the B and the grapple. Rounds etc. are not as much an issue but when you're doing it as a business I would want to go as big as possible and still be able to meet the needs requirements of fitting in tighter places, weight etc.

When I bought my B i was thinking of getting the BX25 as I wanted a backhoe but reality was for about the same money I needed the added loader capacity/height and features of the B more then the backhoe.

When it's a business time is money, and larger tractors will move more faster as long as they aren't too big for the job.

I like the BX but I'm thinking it might be at its limits too often.

Some days working I wish I had a L and some days I wish I had a BX, but since I can't afford both I have a happy medium in the B.

 

[DrCornwallis]

Something I would like to say again, my quest for a CUT/SCUT is meant as a cost effective replacement to a Mini Track Loader (MTL) such as the Bobcat MT55. My desire for a larger tractor than a SCUT is basically me looking to get the most lift capacity for my money. I'm not looking to replace a full size CTL. Down the road I see my self eventually getting a CTL such as a Bobcat T590.

This leads me to wonder, if perhaps it wouldn't make more sense to go with a SCUT?

Here's the MT55/85 spec sheet for reference:
https://assets.bobcat.com/literature/b-1776-mini-track-loaders.pdf

I went to the Kubota dealer today to look at tractors in person. They didn't have a B in stock but they did have an L2501 and a BX 2680. I was actually really pleasantly surprised with the BX 2680. In pictures it seems to look flimsy, however, in person it looked and felt really stout for such a small machine. I've also definitely ruled out the B series, in favor of the L2501. Size and dimensions are virtually identical but the L can lift higher (94"). The L is a pretty big tractor IMO, at least for what I'm looking to do.

BX Pros:
- Very compact: It's very close in specs and size to a Bobcat MT 55. Also, it's well within the limitations of being towed by my Tacoma. It would also be absolutely excellent for getting into tight spades. At only 45 in wide it will get through most residential gates.
- close to the ground, easy to get on and off of.
- Price: 17k, its approximately 10k less than an MT55.

BX Cons:
-Lower lift height (71"), I wouldn't be able to stack brush as high as I would like to. The smaller dump trailer I'm looking at is the Load Trail DT07 60"x10'. Deck height is 26", sides are 18", side extensions are another 24", for a total of 68" in height. So the FEL/grapple will barely clear with the extensions on. I would either have to load with a ramp or I possibly not use the sides? This same problem would exist with an MT 55.


L2501 Pros:
- 94" lift height is more than enough
- loader capacity is higher. Not a huge deal but certainly nicer.
- seems sturdier for consistently hauling more

L2501 Cons:
- Bigger, will be harder to move around on small properties.
- Weight, the L2501 will require a bigger, heavier trailer, plus it weighs more by it self. Tractor+FEL+trailer= 6553 lbs and we haven't even added a grapple or ballast yet. Not safe.


I can, if need be, trade trucks with my father, or have him deliver equipment, so, lets disregard that the L2501 can't be towed by my truck. I think that the L2501 is likely a better one tractor option if I were never to purchase a CTL down the road, however, I think the L may still be a better overall option as I'm not really sure how much bigger it really is. In a show room, it looks big, however, dimensionally on paper, it's really not that much bigger and has substantially better capabilities. I'm also not sure where in the future a CTL really is. Maybe it's two years, maybe it's 5. Maybe I go ahead an get the L and find out it actually does everything I need and never even buy a CTL.