Trees all falling the wrong direction

[sandman2234]

I have had very good sucess with doing just that, usually with a good strong Nylon rope. Tied to the rear of my p/u truck and driven by someone to keep the slack out.
The last time was with my late father in law, who took over the operation of the truck while I did the sawing. A 24" pine with a leaning tendency over his garden spot was coming down. As I neared the middle of the tree, where the notch was getting close to my backside cut, I looked up, and he was standing next to me. The truck was in park, engine off. I told him to keep the roap tight, and he replied "It is"...
The cracking of the last piece of wood came right then, and the base of the tree kicked back, going right past me and about 15' further. Nobody or nothing was hurt, except the tree top slapping my tailgate. You could have heard a pin drop, for a minute, till he said, "I never thought that would happen"
A man has to know his limitations
David from jax

 

[BigEddy]

I disagree with an earlier post. I like Nylon rope. My technique is to get a good 3/8 nylon rope at least 25% longer than the tree is high. I anchor that to another tree in the direction I want the tree to fall using a pulley block, and I tension it as much as I can with a come-along or a block and tackle off to the side. The nice thing about nylon rope is that it will stretch - I can usually pull several feet of stretch into the rope and that creates several hundred pounds force minimum on the tree at a significant height above the ground. That is a lot of leverage!
Then I cut my wedge out. A common fault is to cut too narrow a wedge. The wedge needs to be wide enough that the tree can fall at least 45 degrees before the wedge is closed - ie. a 45 degree wedge opening. I cut the wedge at least 66% through the tree. Once I have the wedge cut, I go back and retension the rope. Sometimes I can take in a lot of slack now, sometimes none. Often you can "stand the tree up"
Finally I go back and make the felling cut, ensuring that I leave a hinge of material. Depending on how much lean I'm trying to correct, I may re-tension again part way through the felling cut although would not likely need to do that with a 12" tree.

The key to this solution is the stretch in the rope. That built up stretch applies a lot of force high up on the tree pulling it in the direction you want it to go. The danger in this method is if the stress overcomes the rope strength and it breaks- there is a h*** of a lot of stored energy in that rope that will make it snap back like a whip. As was mentioned above, using a pulley at the anchor point and redirecting the rope to a come-a-long well to the side adds a measure of safety, but stay out of the path of the rope at all times.

All comes down to experience, confidence, and a good understanding of the likelihood of Murphy making an appearance. Sometimes tha smart thing to do is call in the pros.

 

[beenthere]

Hope you don't find out what is wrong with using nylon rope that stretch's the way you describe. All that energy built up in the rope will release violently if you exceed the failure limit, which you say you try to load it as much as you can.

I was present when a nylon (3/8" too) broke when under load and lashed back, punching THROUGH a house wall, siding, insulation and drywall. Fortunately it went by and not through the guy cranking on the come-a-long. It barely missed him, only ripping his shirt sleeve.

Many horror stories about nylon rope and straps with pent up energy being suddenly released. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[gsganzer]

Most arborist ropes are some type of Polyester. Minimal stretch and full length fibers. I'd steer clear of nylon, manila, polypropylene and cotton.

 

[John_Mc]

There are a lot of techniques described in this thread. Some good, some I shudder when I think about them. The trouble is, without good training, you are not really equipped to jusdge which is the good and which is downright dangerous. I could describe the techniques I use, but it would be just another opinion from someone you have no way of judging if they know what they are talking about.

It is quite possible to drop a tree 90 degrees or even 180 degrees from the direction of its lean, and it's possible to do it without the use of ropes or chains, and do so safely. I have seen and used the technique on up to 30" diameter trees (not much opportunity to try anything bigger), and it works with a slight modification on trees as small as 6" diameter.

The best advice I can give is to seek out some quality training in how to do this safely. Check out The Game of Logging for information on one such training system. There are organization offering this training in a variety of locations in the USA. People taking this training range from professional loggers with years of experience to landowners simply wishing to cut some firewood. I've been through levels 1 through 3 of their 4-day training program and found it highly valuable. It definitely changed the way I work in the woods.

Whether you go with this organization, or some other, I urge you to get some organized training. The stakes are just too high not to get some hands-on experience in a controlled environment... just reading a description of someone's technique is not enough.

... OK... stepping down off the soapbox now...

John Mc

 

[John_Mc]

There are a lot of techniques described in this thread. Some good, some I shudder when I think about them. The trouble is, without good training, you are not really equipped to jusdge which is the good and which is downright dangerous. I could describe the techniques I use, but it would be just another opinion from someone you have no way of judging if they know what they are talking about.

It is quite possible to drop a tree 90 degrees or even 180 degrees from the direction of its lean, and it's possible to do it without the use of ropes or chains, and do so safely. I have seen and used the technique on up to 30" diameter trees (not much opportunity to try anything bigger), and it works with a slight modification on trees as small as 6" diameter.

The best advice I can give is to seek out some quality training in how to do this safely. Check out The Game of Logging for information on one such training system. There are organization offering this training in a variety of locations in the USA. People taking this training range from professional loggers with years of experience to landowners simply wishing to cut some firewood. I've been through levels 1 through 3 of their 4-day training program and found it highly valuable. It definitely changed the way I work in the woods.

Whether you go with this organization, or some other, I urge you to get some organized training. The stakes are just too high not to get some hands-on experience in a controlled environment... just reading a description of someone's technique is not enough.

... OK... stepping down off the soapbox now...

John Mc

 

[knute_m]

I was just reading, and ran across this thread about felling trees. I guess I'm about a month late in getting in my two-cents worth. Maybe this will help others.

I've been taking trees down for over 40 years on the farm, and even in town. If you've got a leaning tree and a place to tie off, a come-along, or even two come-alongs are the only way for me.

Right now, I'm in the process of taking down about 30 trees from 8-inch DBH (diameter at breast height) to about 20-inch DBH. All are within about 40 feet of the house we moved into last summer. Some have branches that are rubbing the side of the house.

Depending on how bad a tree is leaning, and depending on if it can fall on something important, determines whether I use two come-alongs and two sets of chains, or just one. Sometimes on a really badly leaning tree, the second chain set and come-along are needed to take over when the tree has been pulled back so far that the come-along has run out of take-up wire.

I have several "slip chains" that are about 5-6 feet long. They have a grab hook on one end, and a slip loop on the other end. Using a ladder, I put the slip chain as high up in the tree as possible. Usually 10 to 15 feet up. Then I attach one or more lenghts of 25-foot by 3/8-inch welded tow chain (available at Lowes, Tractor Supply, etc., for about $30-$40) to the slip chain. The other end goes to a come-along, and the other end of the come-along goes to another slip chain that is around a stump, or to the base of a large tree. At this point, I only snug up the come-along. I don't want binding when I start my notch.

I cut my notch -- and I use a relatively sharp and shallow notch, about 10% of the tree diameter. I tighten the come-along as tight as it will go. Then I start my felling cut. No deeper into the back of the tree than the notch depth. Then I re-tighten the come-along. I keep doing this after about every inch of felling cut, until I know the tree will go where it should, and while it is still safe to pull the tree.

The notch and a straight felling cut accurately determine the direction the tree will fall. The chains only have to be in the approximate direction. They can easily be 15 - 20 degrees off from the direction of fall.

This sounds like a lot more work than it really is. But, for me it is a lot safer than topping a tree, since I don't climb.

Knute

 

[knute_m]

I was just reading, and ran across this thread about felling trees. I guess I'm about a month late in getting in my two-cents worth. Maybe this will help others.

I've been taking trees down for over 40 years on the farm, and even in town. If you've got a leaning tree and a place to tie off, a come-along, or even two come-alongs are the only way for me.

Right now, I'm in the process of taking down about 30 trees from 8-inch DBH (diameter at breast height) to about 20-inch DBH. All are within about 40 feet of the house we moved into last summer. Some have branches that are rubbing the side of the house.

Depending on how bad a tree is leaning, and depending on if it can fall on something important, determines whether I use two come-alongs and two sets of chains, or just one. Sometimes on a really badly leaning tree, the second chain set and come-along are needed to take over when the tree has been pulled back so far that the come-along has run out of take-up wire.

I have several "slip chains" that are about 5-6 feet long. They have a grab hook on one end, and a slip loop on the other end. Using a ladder, I put the slip chain as high up in the tree as possible. Usually 10 to 15 feet up. Then I attach one or more lenghts of 25-foot by 3/8-inch welded tow chain (available at Lowes, Tractor Supply, etc., for about $30-$40) to the slip chain. The other end goes to a come-along, and the other end of the come-along goes to another slip chain that is around a stump, or to the base of a large tree. At this point, I only snug up the come-along. I don't want binding when I start my notch.

I cut my notch -- and I use a relatively sharp and shallow notch, about 10% of the tree diameter. I tighten the come-along as tight as it will go. Then I start my felling cut. No deeper into the back of the tree than the notch depth. Then I re-tighten the come-along. I keep doing this after about every inch of felling cut, until I know the tree will go where it should, and while it is still safe to pull the tree.

The notch and a straight felling cut accurately determine the direction the tree will fall. The chains only have to be in the approximate direction. They can easily be 15 - 20 degrees off from the direction of fall.

This sounds like a lot more work than it really is. But, for me it is a lot safer than topping a tree, since I don't climb.

Knute

 

[Diesel_Boy]

i am certainly no expert. but i am in the same situation as an occasional firewood fetcher. i definately want to check out the website mentioned in a previous post about an organization that provides training. anyhow, i came across something that i thought would add to the discussion, as i found it very interesting and applicable to the situation. go to google and do a search for: felling wedge . i believe the first hit you see, which is an osha page, discusses the concept of segments. without the use of ropes or chains/cables, it will give you an idea of how much lean in a tree can be overcome by the use of a felling wedge alone. it depends on the height and diameter of the tree. check it out. but i still want to inquire on the training thing. have a nice day, pat.

 

[Diesel_Boy]

i am certainly no expert. but i am in the same situation as an occasional firewood fetcher. i definately want to check out the website mentioned in a previous post about an organization that provides training. anyhow, i came across something that i thought would add to the discussion, as i found it very interesting and applicable to the situation. go to google and do a search for: felling wedge . i believe the first hit you see, which is an osha page, discusses the concept of segments. without the use of ropes or chains/cables, it will give you an idea of how much lean in a tree can be overcome by the use of a felling wedge alone. it depends on the height and diameter of the tree. check it out. but i still want to inquire on the training thing. have a nice day, pat.

 

[PineRidge]

I cut several large trees today. One was as straight as could be yet refused to fall the way that I needed it to fall. I carefully wrapped a chain around it and used the 40D to coax it the right way. CAUTION This only works if your chain is longer than the tree is high, which mine was.

 

[PineRidge]

I cut several large trees today. One was as straight as could be yet refused to fall the way that I needed it to fall. I carefully wrapped a chain around it and used the 40D to coax it the right way. CAUTION This only works if your chain is longer than the tree is high, which mine was.

 

[Slamfire]

Mike, if your cable is too short use a snatch block to change the direction of the pull. Goin' at right angles to the fallin' tree is usually pretty safe. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Slamfire]

Mike, if your cable is too short use a snatch block to change the direction of the pull. Goin' at right angles to the fallin' tree is usually pretty safe. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Diesel_Boy]

hi John,
if you don't mind my asking, how much do they charge for this training class at game of logging? thanks.

 

[Diesel_Boy]

hi John,
if you don't mind my asking, how much do they charge for this training class at game of logging? thanks.

 

[turnkey4099]

A bit OT but does apply to falling leaners:

On a badly leaning tree, there is a heightened risk of a 'barberchair'. Several years ago I learned to place a heavy log chain around the stem above the cut before beginning. It saved my rear 2 days ago. Tree 34" DBH, buckskin on bottom, looked solid, chips coming from the notch were solid but...I barely started the back cut when the tree cracked taking all the slack out of the chain. A little more cutting and it was on the ground. Turned out that the undercut side was solid, the back side half rotten. When I removed the chain there was a 360 degree perfect pattern of chain link indentations. That would have been one spectacular barber chair without the safety chain

Harry K

 

[turnkey4099]

A bit OT but does apply to falling leaners:

On a badly leaning tree, there is a heightened risk of a 'barberchair'. Several years ago I learned to place a heavy log chain around the stem above the cut before beginning. It saved my rear 2 days ago. Tree 34" DBH, buckskin on bottom, looked solid, chips coming from the notch were solid but...I barely started the back cut when the tree cracked taking all the slack out of the chain. A little more cutting and it was on the ground. Turned out that the undercut side was solid, the back side half rotten. When I removed the chain there was a 360 degree perfect pattern of chain link indentations. That would have been one spectacular barber chair without the safety chain

Harry K

 

[roermo]

I have cut maybe 50 trees down for firewood over the years. In the past few years I look around for already down trees, by nature, storms etc. Even more so after in North East Missouri a professional logger was killed on the spot. Not from the tree he was cutting but from a stand of trees that had been thinned the day before some distance away. Not sure about this but the logging had disrupted the remaining stand (from dozer work) and a tree feel over crossing the opening and killing the man.

My point is not only you should you watch the tree you are working on but the whole area around you. So many ways to make a mess of your weekend or life.

Then on the other yesterday my neighbor pushed over a dead tree 50ft just a trunk using a bobcat. It hung up in some limbs of another tree so he gave it another push. It snapped 30 foot up and the top came back to the bobcat. He saw it in time and raised his buck up higher to deflect it. Close call.

Every one is careful, so you can write again.

 

[roermo]

I have cut maybe 50 trees down for firewood over the years. In the past few years I look around for already down trees, by nature, storms etc. Even more so after in North East Missouri a professional logger was killed on the spot. Not from the tree he was cutting but from a stand of trees that had been thinned the day before some distance away. Not sure about this but the logging had disrupted the remaining stand (from dozer work) and a tree feel over crossing the opening and killing the man.

My point is not only you should you watch the tree you are working on but the whole area around you. So many ways to make a mess of your weekend or life.

Then on the other yesterday my neighbor pushed over a dead tree 50ft just a trunk using a bobcat. It hung up in some limbs of another tree so he gave it another push. It snapped 30 foot up and the top came back to the bobcat. He saw it in time and raised his buck up higher to deflect it. Close call.

Every one is careful, so you can write again.