Trouble Getting 8N Started

[wrekless]

I inherited a 1952 Ford 8n about a year ago. It had been sitting for a number of years so I converted it to 12v, put on a new wiring harness, new plugs/altenator/condensor/coil/wires/points/rotor/cap. I rebuilt and cleaned out the carb. Changed the oil, cleaned out/replaced the fuel filters. It fired right up. I have been using it every couple of weeks over the past year since then. It starts immediately every time. The only running issue I had is it didn't like me to increase the throttle before it warmed up. Once it warmed up everything on the engine works fine. (hydraulic gremlins are another story)

A few weeks ago it started up normally. I used it for an hour or so pulling logs out of the woods. Mid-pull it lost power and started sounding very weak then died about 15 seconds later. Since then I cannot get it to start again. It sputters like its trying, but wont catch and keep going.

I have made sure I have sparks on all 4 plugs. I put in spare plugs/points/coil/condenser from my parts box just to make sure with no change. Good blue spark on all 4 plugs. Set an old plug to 1/4" and get good blue spark on all 4 wires. I get good fuel flow at the bottom of the carb. When I try to start it I get the weak combustion with the choke pulled out. Then it acts like it floods a bit so I put the choke in and get another round of weak combustion. I can go back and forth like that all day but it never gets going smooth or strong.

I made a video but I don't think the sound is that great, I can try again if anyone thinks it would help. It sounds weaker in real life than in the video.

I'm def not a mechanic but can follow instructions pretty well. I have searched and tried anything I have come across so far with no luck. I would greatly appreciate any advice or suggestions.

Thank you

 

[pmsmechanic]

Check to see that the distributor advance weights aren't stuck. They are most likely under the plate with the points on it. I don't think there is a timing chain on these engines so that is not an issue. To me it sounds like the timing is off.

Another idea. What's the compression like?

 

[mkreitler]

I would check compression in each cylinder first off then check out things in the distributer for any issues there. After doing all that and wearing yourself out send it down the road. Next get yourself a KUBOTA.

 

[Eyecatcher]

mkreiter - We all like the foreign imports, most of them are pretty nice, I have one, but mine is Yellow. Only reason it wasn't a Kubota, was the dealer wanted to sell me what he wanted me to have, and not what I wanted. Nuff said, I also have an 8n. CUte little feller, burns gas, which I don't like, but It will do things in the garden that my big one wont. On top of that, it is a piece of American Heritage. Old Henry and is cohort Ferguson, put together a machine for the small farmer to be able to replace his one horse (or 2 horse team) plow. You could feed an N Ford cheaper than a horse, and accomplish more in a days work with a lot less effort than walking behind a plow! That simple little machine lasted from1939 until 1952 with only minor engineering changes, and now, at least 75 years later they are still working, in great demand, and I hOpe mine will lie on another 75 yrs for my great great grandkids to enjoy. Where will your Kubota be by then? DON'T KNOCK AMERICAN INGENUITY!!!!

 

[Soundguy]

Do a thumb check on each cyl for compression, not unheard of to hand a valve open.

( confirmed, no timing chain )

Your inability to take throttle cold is likely a slightly lean main needle setting.

Enrich the main and check her out with a can of start fluid.

Post back

 

[mkreitler]

Eye catcher, You are rite to a point what you say, I'm a retired auto worker from Chrysler 35years and farmed for 40 years in S.E. MO. around 800 ACRES at one time worked 23 hr.days many a time to all done and my dad started out with an 8n and 9n so you might say I know a little about them. Later they became two 861 powermaster fords and yes they where all good tractors for the most part and got the job done over time. later on we moved up with a 4000 diesel and then 2 7700 diesel tractors and they went through **** and yes thanks to good old AMERICAN know how they where some of the best in there time,later on I purchased a JOHN DEERE 4440 and that was the cat's meow. So yes American ingenuity was at one time the best. As we all know times change and so do products, nothing is the same today as yesterday was. I went to JOHN DEERE before the KUBOTA but for the value and money KUBOTA was my choice. Maybe that is why JOHN DEERE is offering $7500 over book for the other foreign tractors before JOHN DEERE and the rest of them go the way most AMERICA CO.'s have only time will tell and by the way I know of KUBOTA'S going over 20,000 hrs. and still going. As long as you never work your Ford 8N/2N out side the garden it may be around for ever as long as people like yourself believe in them.

 

[wrekless]

I tried starter fluid at the air intake of the carb. I also tried running a propane bottle open around to intake manifold to see if there was a leak somewhere. Both had no affect.

I went an got a compression tester. It read 77, 74, 72, 73 on cylinders 1->4. Which is low but is starting dry after having sat for a few weeks. I didn't do a wet test. Anyone think that is worth trying?

I"m not sure if I want to pull the carb apart again or pull the top off to see what the valves look like next.

 

[cookesrc]

I know you have some compression, but there looks like a lot of positive pressure coming out of the carb throat (looks like fuel spitting out). Put your hand over that thing and see if its pulling or pushing. Intermittent stuck valve? Recently mine got so flooded that it just refused to start until I really dried it out, with a torch.

 

[Depmandog]

I have an old gas Farmall that's in desperate need of an overhaul. When it gets cranked to much, the cylinders get washed down with gas and I end up having to squirt a shot of oil into each spark plug hole.

Seems to restore compression enough to get her fired up one more time.

 

[wrekless]

It finally wasn't raining today. I ran a wet test. Compression jumped to 92, 108, 87, 95. I also pulled off the valve/spring access covers. Everything is moving up and down like it should.

I put everything back together and noticed a small leak on the carb. The upper housing has a crack in it. So I guess its time to get a new carb. I'll try that next and see what it does.

 

[wrekless]

The new carb came in. I put it on the tractor and there is no change. It starts/sputters/dies within a few seconds. I will do full choke first, then 1/2 to 1/3 choke next time. I can alternate back and forth between those two and get the sputtering, but it never roars to life like it should.

I pulled the bottom drain on the new carb and let it flow for 4-5 min and it gets steady stream of fuel. I re-checked spark at the plugs and I can get a 1/2inch jump from the plug to the block.

I also tried starting it with the key off and then pulled a plug and it was nice and wet.

I really don't know what to do from here. I pulled part of the exhaust off. I am debating pulling the head or the intake/exhaust manifold to see if something is blocked. I would just hate to tear apart the engine if I'm missing something simple. I'm also debating breaking down and calling in a pro since I really need to get my garden going.

Here is a new vid I took tonight: Any thoughts or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Hunter

 

[Depmandog]

I am leaning towards a timing issue. You haven't mentioned if you haven tried adjusting the timing?

Mark the current location of the distributor, then rotate an 1/8" and try to restart. If this is the problem, it won't take much either direction. If advancing a couple of times doesn't smooth out the engine, go back to your mark and try retarding.

I wouldn't be surprised if the distributor and shaft needs rebuilt, but I would try adjusting the timing first. When you get slop in the shaft, keeping the engine in time is almost impossible. Several good articles on the web about rebuilding the 8n distributor. Good luck!!

 

[Eyecatcher]

2nd vote for timing! You've got compression, fuel & spark - it oughta run. I think it has jumped timing. The distributor & shaft may be worn until it won't stay in time. If it does turn out to be timing, repair the distributor, because it will occur again.

 

[pmsmechanic]

Reread post number two.

 

[Soundguy]

If it runs with choke its not timing.

That's a repop car bit looks like.

Did you set the main needle in it or run it out of the box?

 

[Depmandog]

If it runs with choke its not timing. That's a repop car bit looks like. Did you set the main needle in it or run it out of the box?

I don't know...OP stated that in the middle of a work session it lost power, stumbled then died 15 seconds later. Sounds more like a timing issue to me given what he has done up to this point.

 

[Soundguy]

Well, since it is a gear and not a chain, it didn't slip.

If he can start it and make it run with choke, it is at least 'close' as far as timing goes. If timing was out enough not to run, it would not start

Sudden death during work, with not bad things poking out the block is usually spark or fuel.

Spark is easy to check

If it has spark, then fuel is the next thing you look at.

Other issues like valves, air intake and advance deserve a look, but should.d present as obvious with this level of diagnostics so far.