troubleshooting my MF 35

promethiusgarden · Apr 27, 2013

Hey,

I've got a '64 perkins.

A couple of days ago I was doing some field work and the tractor was running strong then just shut off. Tried to start but nothing, first thing I thought was that it was a fuel issue. So, today I replaced the fuel filters, cleaned the sediment bowl and bled the system to the best of my knowledge based on everything I've read.

Still wouldn't start, so just out of curiosity I gave it a snort of ether, and it fired right up.

Back out to the field, it ran strong for 20 minutes, then shut off again. This time I just cranked it for about 20 seconds, and it fired up. This happened 2 more times then I called it quits. Same thing, about 20 minutes of running, then after shutting off, it needed about 15 - 20 seconds, or more of cranking then it fired up.

What would you guys check next? Also, I've just realized the air intake/oil bath area could use some attention. Could this be part of the problem?

Thanks!!

hazmat ranger · Apr 27, 2013

Had a Massey 65 for many years- Perkins diesel. Had one time I forgot to open the fuel valve at the tank so got several minutes of running before it died. Sounds like yours is starving for fuel. Given what you've done yet have continuing issue maybe there is sediment by pick-up/outlet of tank? Back flush? Or perhaps could be sucking air somewhere and so starved for fuel. Hopefully not your injector pump. Either way, it sounds like a fuel issue for sure. Good luck.

Soundguy · Apr 27, 2013

deffinately sounds like fuel

I'd let fuel run into a bucket for 10m and see if it is a stoppage from the tank.

promethiusgarden · Apr 27, 2013

Soundguy said:
deffinately sounds like fuel

I'd let fuel run into a bucket for 10m and see if it is a stoppage from the tank.

I think I'll try that next, so at least I can rule out crud in the tank. I need to get this think back in the field, I'm a market gardner and I need my tractor! Thanks.

promethiusgarden · Apr 27, 2013

Oh and just read this here (http://www.gptractorparts.co.za/massey_ferguson_trouble_shooting_guide.html):

"We receive many calls from clients complaining that the tractor cuts out and after bleeding the diesel system it runs for about a half hour before cutting out again. To resolve this problem remove the fuel tap under the fuel tank and clean the sieve attached to the tap. However the fuel tank is by this stage in need of a good clean by a qualified workshop and cleaning the sieve will only be a temprorary solution."

Will I need to go through the bleeding process if I just disconnect from tank?

Soundguy said:
deffinately sounds like fuel

I'd let fuel run into a bucket for 10m and see if it is a stoppage from the tank.

Soundguy · Apr 27, 2013

probably no need to bleed if just disconnecting tank.

Xfaxman · Apr 28, 2013

Has anything changed that would prevent air from entering the tank as the fuel is used, like a new or different fuel cap?

I don't know how or where that tank is vented. Next time it dies, loosen the cap and listen for air going in. The vent might be plugged.

promethiusgarden · Apr 28, 2013

Hmm, I don't know how the tank is supposed to be vented, but I have not changed anything in regards to the fuel tank.

I'm still wondering if a non functioning air filtration system would affect performance. I need to dump and clean out the old oil and bring it up to the correct level.

Xfaxman said:
Has anything changed that would prevent air from entering the tank as the fuel is used, like a new or different fuel cap?

I don't know how or where that tank is vented. Next time it dies, loosen the cap and listen for air going in. The vent might be plugged.

The kid · Apr 28, 2013

promethiusgarden said:
Hmm, I don't know how the tank is supposed to be vented, but I have not changed anything in regards to the fuel tank.

I'm still wondering if a non functioning air filtration system would affect performance. I need to dump and clean out the old oil and bring it up to the correct level.

A non functioning air filter isn't good news on any engine. That should be corrected ASAP. Sounds to me your losing fuel prime either due to a faulty fuel pump or blocked microscreen filters. Here's a picture from agcopartsbook.com from the Fuel tank Fuel pump page for the MF35 diesel. Have you shined a light down in the tank to see if the tank is contaminated. Draining the tank for 10 minutes is not the same as actually using the tractor jossling the fuel around. Here's a picture of the primer and sediment filters from www.agcopartsbook.com for a MF35 Perkins.

View attachment 315311

promethiusgarden · Apr 28, 2013

Thanks for the reply. I took apart that glass bowl and cleaned it, it actually wasn't that dirty. Did shine a light into tank but couldn't see as far as the outlet, since the fill cap is on the opposite end of the tank. I'm really trying to get this fixed quickly!! I need to check anywhere else there is a screen or filter.

When I was bleeding the system I took out the two bleed screws on the pump and when I cranked the engine fuel was spurting out quite far, so hopefully this means the pump is functioning.

Also, I pumped on the priming lever, and it did seem to push the fuel through the system, what's not clear from that that diagram is where any micro screen filters might be?

The kid said:
A non functioning air filter isn't good news on any engine. That should be corrected ASAP. Sounds to me your losing fuel prime either due to a faulty fuel pump or blocked microscreen filters. Here's a picture from agcopartsbook.com from the Fuel tank Fuel pump page for the MF35 diesel. Have you shined a light down in the tank to see if the tank is contaminated. Draining the tank for 10 minutes is not the same as actually using the tractor jossling the fuel around. Here's a picture of the primer and sediment filters from www.agcopartsbook.com for a MF35 Perkins.

View attachment 315311

The kid · Apr 28, 2013

promethiusgarden said:
Thanks for the reply. I took apart that glass bowl and cleaned it, it actually wasn't that dirty. Did shine a light into tank but couldn't see as far as the outlet, since the fill cap is on the opposite end of the tank. I'm really trying to get this fixed quickly!! I need to check anywhere else there is a screen or filter.

When I was bleeding the system I took out the two bleed screws on the pump and when I cranked the engine fuel was spurting out quite far, so hopefully this means the pump is functioning.

Also, I pumped on the priming lever, and it did seem to push the fuel through the system, what's not clear from that that diagram is where any micro screen filters might be?

The one pictured at the top is the fuel cutoff and screws into the tank. The microscreen stands above it on the inside the tank. The second is in the sediment bowl. Also you have inline fuel filters that might need attention if they haven't been changed in awhile. An air leak some where in the fuel delivery will cause a prime loss. Bad diaphram will do the same thing. The Perkins engine is very sensitive to contamination. Are you working from a service manual?
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promethiusgarden · Apr 28, 2013

I have the service manual from AGCO, but it seems to have everything in there but this particular situation. Yes I need to check the screen in the tank for sure. Need to revisit any screens around sediment bowl, because I just removed it and cleaned it out, but didn't look further around there. Just put in two new AGCO fuel filters.

Where and what, is the diaphragm?

The kid said:
The one pictured at the top is the fuel cutoff and screws into the tank. The microscreen stands above it on the inside the tank. The second is in the sediment bowl. Also you have inline fuel filters that might need attention if they haven't been changed in awhile. An air leak some where in the fuel delivery will cause a prime loss. Bad diaphram will do the same thing. The Perkins engine is very sensitive to contamination. Are you working from a service manual?
View attachment 315317

promethiusgarden · Apr 28, 2013

OK, so now that I'm thinking I didn't see a screen like the one that is in the diagram above the glass sediment bowl. #31 in that diagram. Just did a quick search for that part number, doesn't look like it will be easy to find.

The kid · Apr 28, 2013

promethiusgarden said:
OK, so now that I'm thinking I didn't see a screen like the one that is in the diagram above the glass sediment bowl. #31 in that diagram. Just did a quick search for that part number, doesn't look like it will be easy to find.

The screens can easily be cleaned with some carb cleaner spraying in the oposite direction of flow to clear the screen. If the cutoff has at one time been removed, there is a chance the vertical screen tube is gone thus allowing larger debris to enter into the fuel system and should be filtered by the large canister filters. The next time the engine quits after running look to see if the glass bowl is empty. That would be a clue. As other have mentioned if the tank filler cap is not vented properly could restrict flow somewhat. That too is easy enough to verify by leaving it slightly loose while using it, but not so loose as to have fuel spilling out while driving the tractor. Check for flow from the tank before tearing into it. The cutoff with a screen are a readily available part that fits several types of vintage MF tractors. My 135 has a TO30 fuel cutoff on it.

promethiusgarden · Apr 28, 2013

The kid said:
The screens can easily be cleaned with some carb cleaner spraying in the oposite direction of flow to clear the screen. If the cutoff has at one time been removed, there is a chance the vertical screen tube is gone thus allowing larger debris to enter into the fuel system and should be filtered by the large canister filters. The next time the engine quits after running look to see if the glass bowl is empty. That would be a clue. As other have mentioned if the tank filler cap is not vented properly could restrict flow somewhat. That too is easy enough to verify by leaving it slightly loose while using it, but not so loose as to have fuel spilling out while driving the tractor. Check for flow from the tank before tearing into it. The cutoff with a screen are a readily available part that fits several types of vintage MF tractors. My 135 has a TO30 fuel cutoff on it.

Cool, well I know what to check on next, I'll report back.

promethiusgarden · May 1, 2013

So, since I had the tractor in the garage today I went ahead and...

- cleaned out, refilled the air filter

- changed the oil and filter

I didn't do anything to the fuel system since I last tinkered with it. It fired right up, then I trucked out to the field and did some laps, it ran fine, no faltering.

I'll run it harder next week and report back, but meanwhile it feels good to have fresh fluids and clean breathing! Already did the tranny fluid last month.

Oh, one thing I did notice was there was a 1/4 of what appeared to be water in the glass on the bottom of the first fuel filter, hadn't seen that before.

azrancher · May 1, 2013

You can get a bad batch of diesel with water in it, happened to my F350 a while back. But that's what that water separater is for...

Rancher

Soundguy · May 2, 2013

yup... and I'd dump the water and then add in some treatment like diesel clear.

if any of the water made it to the filter it will (can) plug it...

promethiusgarden · May 4, 2013

OK, thing was running fine for about 45 minutes, then shut off again. Cranked for about 10 seconds, 5 different times or so, then it finally cranked and got me back to the barn.

I have a question: What if it's sucking air into the fuel system through any warn gaskets/seals? When it shut off last night I was keeping an eye on the fuel bowl and I'm quite certain there was no irregularity with that, so it seems like it's not necessarily starved for fuel, maybe.

At the fuel bowl there is a gasket, what if it's sucking air there? Would that describe the shutting off? Then as I repeatedly crank I pushing fuel and therefore the air through the system and out? Just me brainstorming here. This is getting to be quite a random disturbance, since after I changed the fuel filters it cranked and ran fine for a bit.