Turf vs R1 vs R4?

[cowboydoc]

You're exactly right Pete. Just because Dahammer and myself think they're worthless someone else may think they're the best thing since sliced bread. Just remember for the most part what is said is a persons opinion based on his/her experiences.

On a sidenote Pete that dog you gave me the help with has turned out to be one of the best dogs we've ever had. She doesn't do any of the things she used to and has turned into a great family pet and quite a little cattle dog. Thanks. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Knute]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I knew this would become an animated thread! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Pete )</font>

Me too, but I wanted to know BEFORE buying one and then having to buy new tires a month later. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I think based on this I'm going to go with R4's when I order my rig, I don't really have a "lawn" just wild grass that shouldn't tear up much, and if it does it's not a big deal to me. The rest of the area is wild and I really don't care if the weeds get messed up.

John

 

[Dahammer]

<font color="green"> In all my shopping for my tractor, the R4s were the tire that was on 90% of all the compact tractors on the dealers lots. </font>
I've noticed the same thing..not really sure why /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif . Maybe it is because the dealers can get a few more $$ for them. The first time you get stuck in the mud with R4's and think "OMG, how is a tow truck gonna get this out?" you will be a convert. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif. Of course I worked my JD4600 and 48 hoe pretty hard, more than most compacts I'm sure. Slid into a few root-ball holes that I excavated and had to crawl out like a mechanical bug using loader and hoe for legs.

 

[billfires]

Knute, one other consideration with turf tires is that they usually have a smaller diameter than R-1s or R-4s that results in lower ground clearance. On my NH 1920 with the subframe backhoe I only have approx. 7 inches of ground clearance with the 18.4-16.1 rear turf tires. With the 14.9-24 R-1s or 17.5-24 R-4s the grond clearance should be about 11 inches. Bill C

 

[Boondox]

He's right, though. R4s just look cool!

Pete

 

[glennmac]

I have written before about my dislike of R4 tires, and agree with all the bad things said about them by others. R4's would be my last choice for any situation, other than extreme loader use, working in rock quarries or similar lapidary terrain, or extended road driving.

My three year dissatisfaction with the tire choices offered by CUT manufacturers has lead me to a different land.

I am currently drafting a four-part article on tire selection, which will include explanations of tire treads, soil conditions, 4WD circumference ratios, footprint pressure calculations, rim and flange explanations, and the superiority of radial design for tractor tires. The culmination of the series in Part IV will document with pictures how I researched, specified and installed the highest quality R1W radial tires on my new L3430 for essentially the same cost as Kubota's R4 tires and rims--which should give me much better dry and wet soil traction, much more flotation, much bigger footprints, much less ground pressure and soil/lawn compaction, much stronger top and sidewall construction, far greater tire life, improved 4wd ratios, and a far more comfortable ride than is possible with the kind of cheap bias ply R1 and R4 tires put on compact tractors (sometimes on out-of-spec rims and often with out-spec-4WD ratios). This all will be posted during the last part of August. The tractor is not yet delivered; some final tread carving and other customizations are being worked on as I type.

Money question: why do the majority of CUTs sold in the U.S. have R4 tires? My answers:

1. Tractor dealers are ignorant about tire types.
2. Tractor buyers are ignorant about tire types.
3. R4 tires look cool.
4. R4 tires have gotten the democratic-sounding and mind-numbing word "compromise" associated with them.
5. Dealers are lemmings.
6. Buyers are lemmings.
7. R4 tires and rims are a huge profit item for the tractor manufacturers (though perhaps not so much for the tractor dealers). Why do you think they are so much more expensive than the "ags" and "turfs" that are available but which are usually recommended against? You can see this profit game, and turn it against the tractor manufacturers, by buying a tractor without tires and rims.

Much more in a few weeks.

As a teaser, I have attached (I hope) a picture of my radial R1W front tires standing next to the cheapo Titan R4 that is standard on every Kubota Grand L.

 

[Knute]

Thanks Glenn, I'm looking forward to the full review.

My guess for why R4's are so popular are your #2 and #3 as much as anything else, but I could be wrong since I'm pretty sure I currently fall into the "ignorant" category. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

John

 

[glennmac]

I took the attached picture to compare my radial R1W tires to the tire sizes on my B2910.

However, the picture is useful to illustrate one of the key traction differences between R1 tires and R4 tires. If you look closely at the R4's on the 2910 (I wish I knew how to post a larger picture), you will notice that you can see right through the spaces between the shallow R4 tread lugs. This is why R4's will slip sideways when on a hill. There is little tread resistance to lateral movement forces.

You cannot see through or between the R1 lugs because they reach down to the center of the tire at a 45 degree angle. This enables an R1 to better resist lateral movement. On the R1W's pictured, the angled lug is also curved (which you can see better in the attachment to my prior post). This increases lateral resistance even more.

The combination of angled and deeper lugs make R1 tires much safer and more traction effective on hills, especially when the hills are wet or snow covered.

 

[F350Lawman]

Gee, we're all stupid and ignorant because we don't agree with you? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

1. my R-4's were a whopping $200 option, wow... my dealer or JD must have made a killing.
2. he didn't suggest or offer them, I asked for them.
3. their slightly lower tire/rim height allow me to enter my barn.
4. my property is flat I am not too worried about sliding sideways.
5. my property has plenty of thorns, sharp branches. etc that I will be clearing so the extra 2 plies offered on the R-4s help.
6. the R-4s ARE gentler on my lawn than the ag tires my tractor comes with due to the narrower width and sharp treads of the ag tires. My lugs are nice and wide the tractor DOESNT drive them deep into the ground even in slightly damp condtitions.
7. I would rather use the R-4s on paved driveways in the winter when I am clearing ice and snow. How well do those sharp ag lugs last on pavement???
8. they go through the mud fine. I have filled the rims to the axle with mud and have had zero problems getting out of the mud. I am not looking to pull a ground engaging implemet through 18" mud, I just need to get through it. If I needed to drag some implement through mud often I am sure ag tires would help. I tend to believe most of us compact trator users try to avoid the ground engaging implement when the ground is pure mud, so I don't think it is much of an issue.

THEY ARE A COMPROMISE. Just like the all-terrain tires on my truck are a compromise. They work well in the field AND on the highway. Same for my R-4s they work well in the field, mud ,on my lawn and pavement.

 

[Hambone]

I have R1's and do not tear up my lawn unless really wet making sharp turn going too fast.