US versus world in quality

[FullBucket]

Thought I'd offer a new thread regarding some of the discussion on manufacturing quality starting to creep into the Bandaman loader thread.

Just read a book by Fareed Zakaria, The Post American World. Pretty good read for a book on economics and foreign policy.

The content is not quite as dire as the title suggests but basically says the new reality is more competition. Other countries are learning to be as good or better at producing goods. Many other economies are growing faster than US. Builds on the BRIC (Brazil, Russia, India, China) report of high growth countries. Number one spot in many categories has shifted from US to other places over the last 10 years. US has become very expensive place to build products. One item that stuck with me was the cost of health care and benefits. Apparently GM pays $6800 per worker. It adds $1500 cost per car.

I'm not taking sides on this one just interested in your observations and experiences.

 

[SnowRidge]

Thought I'd offer a new thread regarding some of the discussion on manufacturing quality starting to creep into the Bandaman loader thread.

Just read a book by Fareed Zakaria, The Post American World. Pretty good read for a book on economics and foreign policy.

I've not read the book, but I have read some of his other writings. He comes across as a very smart man.

 

[BigD23]

Personally I choose to buy USA...You're asking for input,this is my strong opinion.

Don

 

[Foothill Rancher]

I always try to buy USA but it's getting hard to find some products made here, a real shame.

 

[jinjimbob]

One item that stuck with me was the cost of health care and benefits. Apparently GM pays $6800 per worker. It adds $1500 cost per car.

Most western countries have universal health coverage that the employees pay for in their taxes. Where as in the US, this isn't the case, where companies pay the majority of the health care.

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

I personally choose to buy where I can get the best quality for the money. I have worked all of my life for average pay for the work I'm doing. When workers in industries demand a wage that is far above their fellow American's wage then I have no commitment to supporting their above average income using my earned pay. This from a 61 year old that started working at 14 years old and a 4 year voluntary Viet Nam veteran that served to earn this right of choice. I have several family members that have worked for the industries that earn far above their neighbors and have unbelievable compensation packages. They started earning when I was serving. That's just my opinion. But I won't buy French if I know it.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

Most western countries have universal health coverage that the employees pay for in their taxes. Where as in the US, this isn't the case, where companies pay the majority of the health care.

IMO, it does not matter who is writing he check as the ultimate impact is the same. The big issue with healthcare is the overall cost is simply out of control. Its kinda like education where we keep throwing money at it assuming that more will help, when its the system itself that needs reform.

 

[Tollster]

I buy the best product I can get and don't care where its made at. This applys to the quality, the service, and the ease of warranty work. Quite honestly I owe big business nothing and remain loyal to myself.

Funny thing is when I look around, its mostly foriegn things I own.
Sony, Toyota, Honda, Husqavarna, Nikon, Taurus.
Many times American quality just doesn't measure up, and yes, I still look, but less often.

 

[ByronBob]

It's so difficult now to know whats made where anymore. The Japanese auto makers have plants here now and companies like Kubota have some things made in the states as well as overseas.

It's a global world today. Getting hung up on quality today is hard because the culture of the company is what makes the quality level as good as it is. As a Supplier Quality Engineer myself what I try to instill on my suppliers is that they have adequate controls in place to deliver goods to us that are to our prints.

If they are to print and fail, it's not their fault but the designers.

 

[LBrown59]

*Personally I choose to buy USA...You're asking for input,this is my strong opinion.

Don

Another slant on this .
Choosing to buy US regardless of quality or price simply encourages poorer quality and higher prices.
Why you ask?
Because you have taken away the incentive to build better for less as this *mind set virtually guarantees them sales no matter what.


L B

 

[BANDAMAN]

Here is a couple quotes we have hanging around the office:

"The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the rewards of low cost."


VALUE

"It's unwise to pay to much....
But its worse to pay too little.
When you pay too much,
You lose a little money....that is all.

When you pay too little,
You sometimes lose everything,
Because the thing you bought was incapable of doing
The thing it was bought to do.

The common law of business balance
Prohibits paying a little
And getting a lot....
It can not be done.

If you deal with the lowest bidder,
It is wise to add something for the risk you run.
And if you do that, you will have
Enough to pay for something better."

When I was in sales, my customers always wanted performance, long life, and a cheap price, I always joke "pick two". It is very hard to balance the quality and performance of the product to the price people are willing to pay. That is exactly why we have so many options out there. If I want a cheap chainsaw to cut wood a couple times a year, I have lots of options....if I want a chainsaw that is going to last me many years of frequent use, then I have the option to pay more for a higher quality product. Its the same with tractors, you can go to any Sears, Lowes, Home Depot, etc and buy something to mow your grass....if you want more capability and longevity, be prepared to pay more. Personally, I would rather save up longer and get the one I want at a higher cost, even if it means going without for a few years. Its the reason I bought a Kubota, and why I had such high expectations for it. I typically did not care where something is built, but I am paying more attention now.

I think we could all agree that the US has one of the best chances of producing the best products due to the knowledge, equipment, company investments, and research, yet it seems the quality is not always there.

Reread the first quote I posted here....Imagine your bitterness of poor quality when there was no reward for low cost because you paid a premium price for what was supposed to be a premium product!!!!

Buy something cheap, be prepared for what you get.
Buy something expensive, demand that it meets the high standards that you were sold on.

 

[jnjpream]

If I see a product made outside the US and a product made in the US that are of equal quality and similar price, I will buy US every time. But if a US company produces crap, and demands a higher price than a competing company that produces the same crap, I'll purchase the less expensive crap. But when it comes to quality, I will always put in the extra effort and spend a little more to get a quality product regardless of how often I will use the product and regardless of where it is made. I will not buy junk "because it's all they had at Store A" and encourage the production of junk unless I have no other choice.

Regarding crap & "Store A": I WILL NOT buy anything from Walmart . They are forcing the prices on everything they buy down to a point that the only way manufacturers can compete is to reduce the quality of what they produce. Since you now have the majority of manufacturers producing crap, and because wally world is one of the largest retailers in the US the consumer space flooded with junk.

I've seen more than one good quality american company go out of business because they couldn't reduce costs enough to compete with the junk producers chosen by retailers like Walmart who care nothing of quality . The owners were/are good people and I applaud their efforts and refusal to to give up the pride in what they do.

It seems that the majority of consumers no longer care, or are so unfamiliar with a quality product, that they just keep buying this junk. This junk will fall apart, generate more waste, and the cost the consumer more than a higher quality widget would have in the first place because they have to continually replace it. There was a study done sometime ago that showed that Walmart may save the average consumer 4% on purchases, but it ends up costing them 6% overall due to damage done to the US economy.

I still believe that US companies would rather produce a quality product over a cheap one. But because companies outside the US would rather sell junk just to make a buck (and are encouraged to do so by retailers like Walmart), the US companies are forced to downsize and/or reduce quality to stay in business.

Jeff

 

[jinjimbob]

IMO, it does not matter who is writing he check as the ultimate impact is the same. The big issue with healthcare is the overall cost is simply out of control. Its kinda like education where we keep throwing money at it assuming that more will help, when its the system itself that needs reform.

This is because of the middle men in this country, ie. the 'insurance' companies, they make money on it all, the hospitals here are mostly private too.

The whole system here is broken, no one will fix it, too much money not to be made if it is.

 

[SnowRidge]

Regarding crap & "Store A": I WILL NOT buy anything from Walmart . They are forcing the prices on everything they buy down to a point that the only way manufacturers can compete is to reduce the quality of what they produce. Since you now have the majority of manufacturers producing crap, and because wally world is one of the largest retailers in the US the consumer space flooded with junk.

Yes, the marketeers in charge care about nothing but the bottom line. But it's not just Wally World. Home Depot, Sears, and Lowes do it, too, although perhaps not to the same extent.

 

[jnjpream]

Yes it is more than just Walmart, but they are the worst. Actually, Lowes is up there on my **** list too. They are owned by Walmart.

I will buy from contractor supply houses when I can (some won't sell retail though) and pro quality lumber yards.. Usually means I have to go to several stores in one trip depending on what I'm doing (elec, plumbing, hvac..). But I usually save money because they have what I need on the shelf, instead of having to buy three pieces and hodge podge them together to make something work like I typically have to do at HD. And the advice you get from the REAL pro's make's up for any higher prices I might have to pay.

Growing up in a large family of tradesmen it was easy to get what you needed and the advice to go with it. I wasn't until I moved away from my home town that I realized how bad HD, Lowes, Menards, etc, really were.

 

[thunderworks]

I basically agree with the comments about Walmart. However, to simplistically blame Walmart without some cultural introspection, does a disservice to the topic. They found a niche marketing to the lowest price purchaser because that demographic exists. They didn't create the niche, but they perfected the business model that best exploited it. I won't buy from them either.

 

[maddog8211]

I have no problems buying products from outside this country on a few conditions. They have labor and enviremental laws equal to ours. We can compete with Japan, Europe, Canada and Australia, we cannot compete with Mexico, Indonisia, China etc. NAFTA was suppose to raise their standards of living but it has had the opposite effect. Its great for big business and Wall st. however.

 

[BigD23]

Another slant on this .
Choosing to buy US regardless of quality or price simply encourages poorer quality and higher prices.
Why you ask?
Because you have taken away the incentive to build better for less as this *mind set virtually guarantees them sales no matter what.


L B

I didn't say I would buy US regardless of quality or price.....Don't put words where they don't belong.

Don

 

[crd]

Well, there's lots of good reasons not to shop at Lowes, but being owned by Walmart is not one of them. This is a myth. However, Lowes and Home Depot both follow the Walmart playbook when dealing with suppliers - the name brand products you see there are often "cost engineered" especially for them - like the Deere mowers vs. seemingly identical models at Deere dealers.

Yes it is more than just Walmart, but they are the worst. Actually, Lowes is up there on my **** list too. They are owned by Walmart.

 

[NuBota]

I have to agree with ThunderWorks - it is truly a cultural thing. In this entitlement and "share the wealth" culture we are in, people want "things" - and they want them cheap and they expect quality. Retailers simply attempt to strike the balance meeting the consumer "need".

I avoid the box stores, not because of what they sell - but the quality of service they provide. Product margins are probably less than what many think - so volume is key. It's also a juggling act to balance labor expenses to support the traffic volume. Add to that - that being in retail is beneath many - so you catch attitude and poor work ethic. Just looking at the lines at the register in the box stores - people willing to waste their time to buy cheaper. I'll go to the small store every chance I get for the personal attention and the fast service. Same with restaurants.

I read an article back in the summer about how the Chinese Gov't was trying to enforce higher manufacturing standards to improve the perception of Chinese goods. It went on to mention the companies that went under because of the cost to meet the new standards balanced against the price demands from American retailers. Not defending China - but the American retailer did essentially define the quality requirement for Chinese goods

I don't blame the companies - with the exception of the type of folks here - they simply meet what the customer wants and is willing to accept - and make a profit. I blame the masses - they want to make a ton of money doing average (or no) work and have to pay nothing collecting their toys to measure up to the Joneses.

Free enterprise is a great thing when they're the ones raking it in - but a big, rich, fat, horrible corporation when it comes time to buy something

Sorry, just did my intial tax computation - ugly - so a little bitter here......