Used Value vs Age

[espacef1fan]

My statements are false because you say they are......? Your chart is "modeled" to get a result and is fake because it leads in that low emissions fuel standards are better for fuel economy. I'm saying your argument is subjective rather than objective...which is what you people do.

Cars have gotten bigger with time(compare each generation of the same model)

Cars have gotten heavier.

Cars have gotten safer

Trucks have gotten more capable.

These are OBJECTIVELY provable.


Also which “people” am I a part of?

 

[Ishkatan]

"We need to do all we can to slow climate change and cut emissions"

Do the Chinese, Indians, Russians, etc. feel this way too, or if just "we" do it, the problem will be solved?
The others don't give a hoot about what "we" do!

Lead by example, not by whining about what others do.

I recall when the USA had emission controls for a while but when I was in Europe they did not - and you could smell it. Now they too have emision controls on their cars.

And I recall when a really big engine without emissions was good because it produced 200 hp. Now engines half that size with emission controls produce >400 HP and >400 ft. Torque while getting 50% + better gas mileage.

I'm tractor shopping and while I am glad the first gen of emission controls is past and lessons were learned, I don't mind having emissons on my future tractor - they say just keep using it while it goes through the regen cycle. I figure I can find something to bush hog for half an hour.

 

[Ishkatan]

Electric tractors!
Department of Tractor Smog and Safety!

Monarch Tractor Announces World's Only Fully Electric Smart Tractor

The all-electric Monarch tractor can provide 40 horsepower (30 kilowatts) of continuous power and short-duration peak power up to 70 horsepower (55 kilowatts). Hydraulics can be controlled from the cloud. It is the only tractor in the world controlled by wire.

www.dtnpf.com

Wow! I never thought of that one: Deere’s new electric tractor tosses the battery | The Western Producer

You actually don't need a tractor.... you need a field robot: Electric tractors, agribots and regenerative agriculture | Greenbiz:

 

[Hay Dude]

Monarch Tractor Announces World's Only Fully Electric Smart Tractor

The all-electric Monarch tractor can provide 40 horsepower (30 kilowatts) of continuous power and short-duration peak power up to 70 horsepower (55 kilowatts). Hydraulics can be controlled from the cloud. It is the only tractor in the world controlled by wire.

www.dtnpf.com

Wow! I never thought of that one: Deere’s new electric tractor tosses the battery | The Western Producer

You actually don't need a tractor.... you need a field robot: Electric tractors, agribots and regenerative agriculture | Greenbiz:

Thats gonna replace the farm tractor and farmer?

Farewell and adieu to you fair Spanish Ladies....
Farewell and adieu you Ladies of Spain....

 

[straitbo449]

Having had both pre and post emission tractors, I personally don't see al the negatives about the tractors with emission systems.

A few folks on this forum have a very different opinion.

We need to do all we can to slow climate change and cut emissions

Andy

maybe a good place to start is to stop the govt from spraying us all every day and night...how often do you get to see a beautiful blue sky anymore without jets playing tic-tac-toe with all the chemtrails......

 

[Hay Dude]

Lead by example, not by whining about what others do.

I recall when the USA had emission controls for a while but when I was in Europe they did not - and you could smell it. Now they too have emision controls on their cars.

And I recall when a really big engine without emissions was good because it produced 200 hp. Now engines half that size with emission controls produce >400 HP and >400 ft. Torque while getting 50% + better gas mileage.

I'm tractor shopping and while I am glad the first gen of emission controls is past and lessons were learned, I don't mind having emissons on my future tractor - they say just keep using it while it goes through the regen cycle. I figure I can find something to bush hog for half an hour.

More like "lead into bankruptcy" using that philosophy. lol

I think the thing you are not realizing, is that we are not the entire world. We are just the USA. Customers can now chose to buy any product from anywhere in the world. We already know the USA faces challenges in labor costs and regulations compared to India, China and many other countries where labor is cheaper, regulations are much lower. American manufacturers cant compete.
Economics 101

 

[fried1765]

Lead by example, not by whining about what others do.

I recall when the USA had emission controls for a while but when I was in Europe they did not - and you could smell it. Now they too have emision controls on their cars.

And I recall when a really big engine without emissions was good because it produced 200 hp. Now engines half that size with emission controls produce >400 HP and >400 ft. Torque while getting 50% + better gas mileage.

I'm tractor shopping and while I am glad the first gen of emission controls is past and lessons were learned, I don't mind having emissons on my future tractor - they say just keep using it while it goes through the regen cycle. I figure I can find something to bush hog for half an hour.

Unfortunately, many tractor buyers/users need to bush hog for as long as..... maybe 45 minutes?

 

[4570Man]

Oh no!
Now I am seriously worried!
I did not realize that the 2006 251 hour Kubota L48 TLB I bought 25 months ago, was actually "someone else's neglect/problems".
The L48 TLB is 2006 pre emissions, so I therefore also suffer from the most dreaded tractor scenario of having no warranty.
From current comparables, it appears that I could sell my L48 TLB today, for at least $12K more than I paid.
What am I missing in this picture?

I’ve seen more problems out of new stuff than used stuff. It seems that just about everything new has bugs to work out where used stuff is proven reliable.

 

[Tony H]

I know where this conversation will lead so I will be the one to go down the rabbit hole.

Some government regulations are a necessary evel. That said, it always feels like they went too far when it effects usability of something YOU want. Sometimes technology will catch up to the requirements and you end up with a better machine because of it. Look at how reliable cars have become and how well they run compared to the early days of emission controls. Not sure if this will be the case for diesel emissions. Time will tell.

I am about to buy a good used washer and dryer. New washing machines were regulated to a max of 26 gallons of water and it doesn't cover the load. Reviews on new ones are all over the place but quite a few complain of clothes not getting clean. Complaints are such that Home Depot lists all new washers and dryers as NON-RETURNABLE. Apparently you can spring for a commercial unit that escapes the regulation at near double the price of a consumer model. BUT they don't sell them in any of the normal consumer stores.

I want a mid size cab tractor one of these days. I will probably have to pay near new price to get a pre emission model or suck it up and buy a new one with lots of electronics and pauses in use while it regenerates. Not in my budget either way right now so I will cross that road when I get to it. Finding a good pre emission model is becoming more and more impossible. People are not selling them and if they do they fetch a premium price.

However, the car maintenance and Owner friendliness went down the toilet. The cabinet struggles to maintain their own car with manufacturers hiding error codes that are above the "P0" codes. Expensive computers, expensive Sensors, owner unfriendly locations of maintenance parts. Blue Book times on basic repairs. Crazy. This is currently happening in the tractor world. So, i stick by the cost holding of older tractors due to the lack of DEF and such. Years before COVID, I sold a small Kabota excavator for more then I bought it for. It was 8 years old when I sold it.

 

[OzarkChris]

Some tractors like Branson don’t use extra fuel injected to create heat. They are completely passive if you run the tractor hard enough.

Also some that can inject, don’t inject, if you run it hard enough.

I would be surprised if a modern 50hp tractor would use anymore fuel than an older 50hp tractor at rated power .

I don't have any "hard data", but I can say that my 2019 Mahindra (Tym) 55hp can go through ~14 gal of diesel in much less time (about 3/4 of the time) doing the same job (Bush hogging) than my last Mahindra pre tier 4 55hp. I used to be able to mow/hog my entire property on about 3/4 of a tank. Now I have to refill when I'm about 90% finished. I don't believe I'm going any slower, still using the same hog, still have throttle @ 2400 for pto. Total weight of new tractor is ~150-200# heavier than pre tier 4 (could be emissions crap or difference between fills in rear tires - antifreeze beet juice - I don't know). But I do know that my summer fuel quantity has gone up close to 50%. Since everything seems to be blamed on either ***** or Climate change, maybe that's why, who knows.