Using GPS to mark property boundry

[Tollster]

Hire a professional surveyor! I do this for a living don't waste your time trying to mark your lines yourself or what you think are your lines. Hire a local respected/established professional tell him to mark your lines and every couple of years recut and mark the lines yourself. There is almost no way a layperson can mark a line anywhere close with a consumer grade GPS unit it just doesn't have the accuracy built in to it. And if the lines are in the wood your professional will not be using GPS.

Did that the first time, he is the one who showed me the corner pins. He says he is currently 7 months behind, and everyone else,just as bad. Youngest one in the area is 63, none can get around well much any more. Claimed the new laws make it next to impossible to cert anyone, and when younger people look at the wages and training involved, they shy away from the trade.
I did tie into some other markings that where rather sporatic, but none the less intermittent along the line of travel.
I feel pretty content with the GPS, and since nothing much more than a sign will be within 200 feet of it, I'll mark it off for now until I can find someone.

 

[lockhaven]

I do not know how old your piece property is. If it is an old survey you and the neighbor may own the same piece of ground. The old surveys were not accurate at all and the owners just didn't care that much about a few acres unless it had a spring or other "useful" feature. In Maryland the oldest survey is usually considered the "legal' one. My great aunt paid taxes on 3 acres of land that just plain did not exist. When we sold her property it was surveyed and found that what she thought was hers actually belonged to the adjacent farm.

 

[jinman]

I would do more than just move stuff and leave a note. If you are not looking to build a fence and want the boundary to be open, then all you really want is for him to not build on your property and also not try to keep you off of it as you previously stated. I would find his mailing address through the tax office or county deed records and send him a letter. Offer to work with him to find an approximate property line. Show him a photo (maybe mail a Google Earth image and overlay the property lines). Tell him exactly how you have come to this conclusion the same way you described it to us.

If he will accept none of the above informally, then you need to talk to a surveyor about a property line survey with clear marks. I've had to do that on one of my properties. After the guy saw where the property line was, he ended up hating his land so much that the forfeited it back to the State of Texas. You just never know what somebody will think or do. Your neighbor may be a super nice guy as one of mine is or a real pain. You have to approach the situation based on that.

 

[toddbailey]

Did that the first time, he is the one who showed me the corner pins. He says he is currently 7 months behind, and everyone else,just as bad. Youngest one in the area is 63, none can get around well much any more. Claimed the new laws make it next to impossible to cert anyone, and when younger people look at the wages and training involved, they shy away from the trade.
I did tie into some other markings that where rather sporatic, but none the less intermittent along the line of travel.
I feel pretty content with the GPS, and since nothing much more than a sign will be within 200 feet of it, I'll mark it off for now until I can find someone.

Wow 7 months behind wish we had that problem here!

 

[greasemonkeyok]

You cannot consistently get an accurate read on a consumer GPS. These units are routinely off by 30' or more.

The surveyor's equipment reads the satellite signals from a known data point and transmits a signal with correction information to the portable unit so the portable unit can calculate the correct location. The portable unit reads the satellite info, and then corrects the readout based on the information from the transmitter on the known data point. I've been told the surveyor's equipment is accurate down to a fraction of an inch.

The surveyor's equipment is rather spendy as some would say.

 

[sparc]

I thought commerical grade GPS had a +-3 Feet accuracy scope.

Isn't that a bit much for a property line? Especially over many acres?

Consumer grade GPS units only resolve to at best 12 maybe 8 or 6 feet.
Survey grade GPS units are sub-centimeter accuracy. If you had a differential GPS unit attached to your GPS (provided it even has that capability) then you might get repeatable ~3 foot accuracy over short distances (under 1/4 mile).

Hire a pro. His work will stand up in court. You should have had your lines marked when you bought the place and maintained them as was previously pointed out. It's work yes but pays off as you avoid conflicts like you are in right now.

 

[dmccarty]

Two sides of our land have pins every 300 feet or so which makes keeping the property line cleared and marked easy. The other two sides though are problem since the pins can be 700-800 feet apart. In one 800 foot line I got a surveyor to put in a pin, should have had them put in more than one pin, between the corners. It cost me $300-400 almost a decade ago but it has "solved" at least two property line issues.

For the other other lines that have pins far apart I use a compass to find the line. I only do this to put up trespass signs. A real dispute would require the surveyor. A compass if much better than a GPS at running the line. I start at a known corner pin, find a tree as far as I can see on the correct property line bearing and put up flagging to that tree. Then repeat to the other corner or near to depending on the brush. After one corner is done, I go to the other corner and shoot the bearing towards the other corner and start putting up flagging or adjust already placed flagging. Once you get up enough flagging you can see the line through the woods.

It is best to do this in the winter after the leaves have fallen.

I do have a survey with the property lines bearings.

This works real well for putting up no trespass signs if you have two corner pins. I would not use this method to put up a fence though.

A consumer grade GPS is just about useless trying to do this in our heavy woods. Its close. It helps but the compass is better and the tree cover does not effect the signal. :laughing: I have used the GPS to do this and I will in the future to help get close to the line between pins in heavy brush but the compass is the final tool to use.

Later,
Dan

 

[Tollster]

I thought about doing line of sight and a compass as you suggest. I can get a 1;24 topo, orient my declination, and using UTM condinates for the GPS, utilize the 3 known points of refernce visually, then plot it on the topo using UTM grids (10,000 x 10,000 square feet), then utilize the GPS as a third verifier, pretty much walk the border using the GPS, combined with the compass. I have had s lot of luck using it ofr hunting pruposes in this matter, as well as finding my way ut of the woods when the batteries died.
I believe the survey years of the map is 84 USGS.

Many of the surveys in our area have refrained from using GPS instruments due to the high level of auracy, as strange as this may sound, you have to consider in the day of william penn and such, if their zero reference was off even the slightest bit, this margin of error could be much greater as deeds grew, kind of like being off .25" in the basement and then having it be an 1.0" off on the second floor. So if you where apt to use something as precise in this day and age,it could potentially create more problems with known reference points across the commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

I like the isea about presenting my findings with the neighbor and really hope we can work things out. I wanna be his friend when he needs a hand and so on, rather than your run of the mill smuck. I wish I could talk to the owner of the property and see if they had spoken to him. We are due to close 1/13 on the parcel, so I have choosen not to be aggressive, but none the less something I know I need to resolve right away as the new owner.

Thank you all and Merry Christmas,
Tol

 

[Eastinlet]

Boundary surveys -- or more properly boundary line location -- are part of my forest management business, but I am not a licensed surveyor and stay away from anything beyond my abilities and expertise.

First, as others have suggested, a homeowner grade GPS is of no value here. If you have known reference points, pins, corners, etc. and a deed description that includes bearings and distances then you should have little problem establishing a line. Provided the corner pins are located where they belong... I have often seen landowners move them around to suit their wishes.

You need a good compass such as Silva, Suunto, or Brunton adjustable for magnetic declination. They will have a mirror for sighting, and properly used will be accurate to 2 degrees or better. Dial in your bearing -- be sure to note whether the bearing is true or magnetic north -- and sight as far away as you can. Hang flagging as precisely as possible to centerline. Move up to the flag and repeat. When you get to the corner turn around and run the line back to starting point, adjust flagging to reflect the average line center. Look carefully along the way for supporting evidence, i.e. old fence, pipes, blazes or paint on trees.

This is not precise, but you will be surprised how close to true a line is when done carefully. I run lines in the thousands of feet to miles range and make them work out. I appreciate the problem with the neighbor, it is not uncommon. It can be helpful to ask him to meet with you on the line, walk it together and show him the evidence and flagged line and pins. Be cordial, he may agree with you. If not, you can still have it surveyed.

 

[Gordon Gould]

What dmccarty and Eastinlet say is good advise. Around here boundries are flagged all the time for logging operations by the land owner or forester with a compass. This is a Silva Ranger with a sight, not expensive, but with a little practice you can flag a straight line. Your surveyor who found the pins may be able to give you a magnetic heading from his field notes.