Using off-road diesel on road

[JerryG]

Jerry:
I've been retired for nearly eight years and things change, so I'm speculating on this, but if a vehicle carries a highway registration and is driven on a road, then they are required to use tax paid fuel. A farm tractor, on the other hand when being driven down the road is still considered an off road vehicle and is exempt from the tax. Authorities know that farm tractors don't drive on the road very far or very often and administring that isses would be impossible..

Not a farm tractor, but a licensed truck that is set up for farm use only but driven on the highway to and from farms. The trucks are owned by contractors. Thanks for the reply. Sorry that I wasn't clear.

 

[JLoaf]

So I guess we should report people that decide not to pay additional tax dollars to provide:
- funding for crusifixes in urine or "the arts"
- illegal imigrant welfare and healthcare, etc.
- financial security and benefits for life for congressmen
- research on cow farts
- yada, yada, yada
Great Idea!
We should all gladly give our hard earned money to the selfless politicians and the god we call "government" so that they can do wonderful stuff just for us - and we need to learn to like it more and more.
They are so much smarter than us common folk.

 

[Kubotasrking]

Exactly. I don't want to pay taxes, I don't even particularly like government, especially big government. But there is a need for it.

Wow. Again, the conversation stuns me. I'm just betting that the mob who want to turn in the villainous outlaw for using burner diesel would've set sail for England when the "Indians" started to dump tea into Boston Harbor.

I respect the opinion that it is illegal, and we must follow the law...I know I do. But I also understand the question that asks at what point of government intrusion upon an individuals ability to make their own decisions is acceptable? Again, it just seems to me that this individual in question is an easy target. I also think it a convenient argument that we turn in this horriffic thief to reduce our own tax burden...what a crock.

Well, that's all the madness I can take in a day. Off to grab one of my aforementioned good beers.

 

[Kubotasrking]

I'm not saying I like all the programs the government spends money on or that taxes couldn't and shouldn't be lower. There is fraud, waste and abuse, but it's still a lot lower than in many other countries

can't resist..

So the government can commit fraud, and because it's <12% it's okay? What if the dieselvillain pays 95% of his taxes?

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Live and let live is a simple thing to say. Would it be popular to say live and let live if other laws were purposedly violated, murder, rape, robbery, and so on. If these are BAD and not in the live and let live category then where does purposely breaking the law become OK? At what level of crime?

Why is it OK to steal in the form of tax evasion? It isn't like the Government is infinitely wealthy and some theoretical entity that isn't harmed by thieves. The Government is us! It is not a victimless crime. All honest tax paying citizens are victims.

I'm reminded of the story about a conversation between a want to be customer of a lady of the evening and a girl at a bar. He enquires about her sleeping with him for a million bucks and she says sure. He says, OK how about for $5. She says, hey what do you take me for, a prostitute? He says we established that fact with the answer to my first question and now we are just haggling over the price!

Are we just haggling over price? Is stealing from all of us just a little bit somehow OK but stealing a lot from just one of us is not? How is tax evasionk more moral than counterfitting money or stamps? Tax evasion is the crime that put Al Capone away. Shoulid he not have been prosecuted?

Are we devolving into a society embued with situational morality and no intrinsic values? Aren't laws intended to apply to everyone all the time unless there are extenuating circumstances, that can be brought out by the legal process? We the people ARE the legal process! I think we are way too far toward the persuasion that it is us against the Government and the police and any thing that any of us can do and get away with is a victory somehow for the common man. That is a slipery slope that we should avoid testing as it is a decivilizing force.

If you don't agree, then what is it that makes us happy to drive in a formation of cars, all traveling at 20-25 MPH above the speed limit as if permission to do so were in the bill of rights and cry like a wounded baby if ticketed?

Why would so many of us here, aparently, ignore if not condone blatant repetitive tax evasion? Well I gotta go. I gotta get to the church and steal some $ from the poor box to help wilth Christmas shopping, after all, stores are getting so uppity about shoplifting I have to actually buy some of the things I get. Then later I'll take my truck and tractor to the county gravel pile and "borrow" some gravel. Then I have to go to the corner hydrant and run a few acre feet of water into one of my ponds. Since all this stuff is not really owed by a single person it makes it OK or at least as OK as cheating on road taxes which apparrently is not such a big deal since it does not directly impact CHILDREN.

Contrary to popular comments, we don't all cheat on our taxes or even get all we are entitled to so as to not get too close to the hassle of a fracas with the IRS. I have a friend who was audited 5 years straight and got a larger refund evey time. I think they were vindictive, he was inconvenienced, and the people had their tax $ wasted trying to squeeze money and having to pay out even more.

I'm not sure about revenuers skulking around parking lots testing fuel tanks. I have a locked tank and concealed carry. It would be an interesting series of events if I caught someone fussing with my fuel cap.

Pat

So well written, so full of common sense.

It is a shame that apparently so many of us citizens of this land choose to use irrationality to justify wrongdoing. Most everyone had a momma that said 2 wrongs don't make a right, yet I see people claiming that "the government" is wrong so I can commit a crime against it. Wow. What an eye opener this thread has become.

 

[Kubotasrking]

So well written, so full of common sense.

It is a shame that apparently so many of us citizens of this land choose to use irrationality to justify wrongdoing. Most everyone had a momma that said 2 wrongs don't make a right, yet I see people claiming that "the government" is wrong so I can commit a crime against it. Wow. What an eye opener this thread has become.

gee bob, maybe you should read the history of your country. Your eyes may then be opened. The American Revolution started over taxes.

 

[cp1969]

gee bob, maybe you should read the history of your country. Your eyes may then be opened. The American Revolution started over taxes.

Close. As I understand it, the American Revolution starter over taxation without representation. Big difference. You have a Representative and two Senators to whom you can take your quibble about paying any particular, or all taxes. The Colonists didn't.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Close. As I understand it, the American Revolution starter over taxation without representation. Big difference. You have a Representative and two Senators to whom you can take your quibble about paying any particular, or all taxes. The Colonists didn't.

To expand a bit, the the Colonists were effectively denied due process in addition to being denied any representation. The Revolution was not started over a simple issue of taxes, it was far more complicated than that, and that has been well documented, but apparently lost on some (perhaps it is a failure of our government run school system?).

The America we live in today allows citizens to work within the system to change it. I'm the first to say the system is not perfect, but I've got the right to work to affect change. Not just by voting, but also by participating. I'd be willing to be that many of the folks who are justifying illegal activity and tax evasion are not the ones who show up at town hall to attend town council meetings, to volunteer for city committees, to work from within a local political party to work on their platforms. Even activities like writing to politicians and writing letters to the editor can be effective on the local level.

 

[Kubotasrking]

Close. As I understand it, the American Revolution starter over taxation without representation. Big difference. You have a Representative and two Senators to whom you can take your quibble about paying any particular, or all taxes. The Colonists didn't.

Hmmm...didn't the colonists pay taxes prior to the Boston Tea Party...? I might be closer than you think.

Republicanism in the United States and/or American Revolution

 

[Kubotasrking]

Live and let live is a simple thing to say. Would it be popular to say live and let live if other laws were purposedly violated, murder, rape, robbery, and so on. If these are BAD and not in the live and let live category then where does purposely breaking the law become OK? At what level of crime?

Why is it OK to steal in the form of tax evasion? It isn't like the Government is infinitely wealthy and some theoretical entity that isn't harmed by thieves. The Government is us! It is not a victimless crime. All honest tax paying citizens are victims.

I'm reminded of the story about a conversation between a want to be customer of a lady of the evening and a girl at a bar. He enquires about her sleeping with him for a million bucks and she says sure. He says, OK how about for $5. She says, hey what do you take me for, a prostitute? He says we established that fact with the answer to my first question and now we are just haggling over the price!

Are we just haggling over price? Is stealing from all of us just a little bit somehow OK but stealing a lot from just one of us is not? How is tax evasionk more moral than counterfitting money or stamps? Tax evasion is the crime that put Al Capone away. Shoulid he not have been prosecuted?

Are we devolving into a society embued with situational morality and no intrinsic values? Aren't laws intended to apply to everyone all the time unless there are extenuating circumstances, that can be brought out by the legal process? We the people ARE the legal process! I think we are way too far toward the persuasion that it is us against the Government and the police and any thing that any of us can do and get away with is a victory somehow for the common man. That is a slipery slope that we should avoid testing as it is a decivilizing force.

If you don't agree, then what is it that makes us happy to drive in a formation of cars, all traveling at 20-25 MPH above the speed limit as if permission to do so were in the bill of rights and cry like a wounded baby if ticketed?

Why would so many of us here, aparently, ignore if not condone blatant repetitive tax evasion? Well I gotta go. I gotta get to the church and steal some $ from the poor box to help wilth Christmas shopping, after all, stores are getting so uppity about shoplifting I have to actually buy some of the things I get. Then later I'll take my truck and tractor to the county gravel pile and "borrow" some gravel. Then I have to go to the corner hydrant and run a few acre feet of water into one of my ponds. Since all this stuff is not really owed by a single person it makes it OK or at least as OK as cheating on road taxes which apparrently is not such a big deal since it does not directly impact CHILDREN.

Contrary to popular comments, we don't all cheat on our taxes or even get all we are entitled to so as to not get too close to the hassle of a fracas with the IRS. I have a friend who was audited 5 years straight and got a larger refund evey time. I think they were vindictive, he was inconvenienced, and the people had their tax $ wasted trying to squeeze money and having to pay out even more.

I'm not sure about revenuers skulking around parking lots testing fuel tanks. I have a locked tank and concealed carry. It would be an interesting series of events if I caught someone fussing with my fuel cap.

Pat

I'm glad you mentioned arguing with the slippery slope fallacy, since you yourself are using the red herring....equating murder to burning red-dye diesel, or, equating stealing with tax evasion (how can keeping the money you earn be stealing? One could easily argue that it is the taxer who is stealing). Anyone can argue their point using such fallacies.

For example (remember your earlier point murder/rape=using off-road diesel), the government could (theoretically) pass a law tomorrow that bans your concealed handgun (that you may use to protect your locked gas tank), make your land their land, your other property their property, and claim the right to primae noctis (for all you Braveheart fans) . Now I'm sure that you and Bob_Skurka, as honest-law-abiding citizens, would submit to the wonder and might of the government because you're principled people who do not suffer from moral relativism like the rest of us. (See how the fallacy works? )

Again, I doubt the subject of the thread, a.k.a. the "dieselvillain" premeditated his position on burner diesel. I also doubt that anyone who has posted here is so principled that they are out here in the world walking on water (in its liquid state). So, I'll reiterate my position for the final time...I subscribe to doing the right thing, and have never run red-dye in my truck ... or my tractor! I also believe that doing the right thing is voting for responsible people, living within your means, believing in something bigger than yourself (different for everybody..except Narcissus), loving your wife & family, working hard, drinking good beer (anyone ever try Blue Moon White Ale?), being neighborly, and respecting people's right to live their life.

Maybe each of us should pull the wood from our own eye first, and then hope for sanctification until the point we are perfect enough to point out our neighbor's shortcomings. Until I'm there, I'll just surf TBN and continue to love my tractor. I'm checking out of the debate from here....