VERY expensive beet juice!

[Don87]

You know, I am usually the one accused of advocating a "nanny state" but you have outdone me here. I stand corrected: Though I already implied in prior posts that methanol might be dangerous if used in a hot tub, I did not explicitly point out that bathing with methanol in general should be avoided. I am embarrassed as I know it is general knowledge that tractor owners routinely use beet juice and CaCl as well as WWF are as bathing agents by tractor owners, typically just prior to adding the solutions to tires. So I should have been more clear that this would not be a good idea with methanol. I stand corrected.

Let us review how methanol is used in ballast: 1) Purchase a 55 gallon drum of methanol. 2) remove bung cap and put a hose into the drum, 3) use a pump to dispense appropriate amounts into each tire, 4) reseal the drum, 5) fill remaining tire volume with H2O up to approx 75% of tire capacity. (Please see separate MSDS for H2O which may be a risk factor for deaths by drowning during use as ballast).

Now just to be complete, I should also point out that breathing methanol fumes at high concentration is also bad for your health. Therefore, filling of tractor tires with methanol solution should NEVER be done in a closet and in general should be done indoors only if you leave plenty of windows open for ventilation.

I've tried my best to point out to you that you gave errant info on a pruduct that can kill or cause blindness. It was stated that methanol is safe, according to links that I provided, it clearly is not safe.

And not to mention that the exact wording is "Highly Toxic" in the links provided. You really may want to obtain the MSDS for this product before using it, or incorrectly telling people it's safe. Also, while your looking things up, look up 'readily absorbed'

Actions such as yours gets people hurt IMHO.

 

[MikeD74T]

Shall we rename this thread: "As the post count soars....! " ? MikeD74T

 

[Soundguy]

i'm just surprised it hasn't been pruned yet. looks awfully similar to the welding thread i was in that got pruned. Big grey area between differing opinions and argument... I guess the err is on the less tolerant side.

the posts pretty much speak for themselves, and IMHO.. are / should be common knowledge.

eg af is decently cheap as af's go, however is toxic to people and animals if ingested. small spills are / can be quickly mitigated, even if it is just allowing it to soak intot he ground and no pool where it can be consumed

pg af is a much better choice if toxicity is a nagging issue on someone's mind. in some cases.. it costs a bit more.. etc.

cacl is about as cheap as you get.. gells the heck out of most plants if spilled, clenup of a spill to mitigate damge would likely include removeal and backfill of material. if it's in an unlined rim, and is not monitored, and damage mitigated as seen, there will be corosion issues. ( use a tube and clean up leaks, and it's pretty cheap and heavy )

wwf / methanol. price appears to be across the board. some places cheap.. some not. not as heavy.. but better than a slap in the face when you need ballast... the pre-diluted stuff you buy in the jugs for your car.. while I'd imagine it's still very toxic to drink, just getting a lil on your hands sloshing it into a tank or tube, ain't gonna killya. methanol straight from a concentrated drum? ok.. wear rubber gloves and don't huff right out of the bung cover... kinda the same safety pracidices you might ractice handling other chemicals in the shop like paint reducers, etc... try not to get much on ya.. don't drink it or use the can as a funny respirator.

beet juice, in various brands.... probably by far the most expensive, and from the charts, way up there competeing for weight with cacl, with less corrosion issues, apparrently at least with the new stuff. probbaly not good to drink or mix in coffee.. but in reasonable quantities, not specifically toxic if you get some sloshed on ya or a bit of it runns downt he tank side wile fillg a bucket. I wouldn't advise using it as a water coloring agent for an in ground fish pond... just because...

that about sum it up?

soundguy

 

[canoetrpr]

that about sum it up?
soundguy

That's about the best summary of the subject I have seen on here. If PG was not such a rip off in cold parts of the world, I think that is all we would ever be using.

Perhaps my only very slight complaint with your analysis might be that you are a bit harsh on wwf/methanol. Granted it is less weight than water/PG but probably about 70% of pure water weight? Not as good as CaCl2 or straight water, but perhaps just being better than a slap in the face is a bit harsh . Water would be ~1200 lb of ballast for me. WWF I think will be ~850lb.

 

[Soundguy]

Perhaps my only very slight complaint with your analysis might be that you are a bit harsh on wwf/methanol. Granted it is less weight than water/PG but probably about 70% of pure water weight? Not as good as CaCl2 or straight water, but perhaps just being better than a slap in the face is a bit harsh . Water would be ~1200 lb of ballast for me. WWF I think will be ~850lb.

I think you are 100% misinterpreting my 'analysis' of wwf. all of these I mentioned are 'in comparison' to straight water ballasting.. since wwf/water is the lightest of the items mentioned.. that's why I gave it the tounge in cheek 'bettern a slap in the face' moniker.


soundguy

 

[k0ua]

i'm just surprised it hasn't been pruned yet. looks awfully similar to the welding thread i was in that got pruned. Big grey area between differing opinions and argument... I guess the err is on the less tolerant side.

the posts pretty much speak for themselves, and IMHO.. are / should be common knowledge.

eg af is decently cheap as af's go, however is toxic to people and animals if ingested. small spills are / can be quickly mitigated, even if it is just allowing it to soak intot he ground and no pool where it can be consumed

pg af is a much better choice if toxicity is a nagging issue on someone's mind. in some cases.. it costs a bit more.. etc.

cacl is about as cheap as you get.. gells the heck out of most plants if spilled, clenup of a spill to mitigate damge would likely include removeal and backfill of material. if it's in an unlined rim, and is not monitored, and damage mitigated as seen, there will be corosion issues. ( use a tube and clean up leaks, and it's pretty cheap and heavy )

wwf / methanol. price appears to be across the board. some places cheap.. some not. not as heavy.. but better than a slap in the face when you need ballast... the pre-diluted stuff you buy in the jugs for your car.. while I'd imagine it's still very toxic to drink, just getting a lil on your hands sloshing it into a tank or tube, ain't gonna killya. methanol straight from a concentrated drum? ok.. wear rubber gloves and don't huff right out of the bung cover... kinda the same safety pracidices you might ractice handling other chemicals in the shop like paint reducers, etc... try not to get much on ya.. don't drink it or use the can as a funny respirator.

beet juice, in various brands.... probably by far the most expensive, and from the charts, way up there competeing for weight with cacl, with less corrosion issues, apparrently at least with the new stuff. probbaly not good to drink or mix in coffee.. but in reasonable quantities, not specifically toxic if you get some sloshed on ya or a bit of it runns downt he tank side wile fillg a bucket. I wouldn't advise using it as a water coloring agent for an in ground fish pond... just because...

that about sum it up?

soundguy

I think that about sums it up.

By the way I checked on Polyethylene Glycol (RV antifreeze -50F) at noon today and it is $3.97 per gallon at Wally World.

James K0UA

 

[Soundguy]

yep.. af's are going on sale here all over the place. our carquest has it for 3.50

people starting to gear up for the cold.. in the past I have seen enormouse prices for the stuff.. 2x+ as much..

soundguy

 

[IslandTractor]

Water would be ~1200 lb of ballast for me. WWF I think will be ~850lb.

WWF is much heavier than you suggest. Water is a bit over 8.3lbs per gallon. WWF is something around 7.7 lbs/gallon. Pure methanol (DANGER: TOXIC TOXIC TOXIC (available at your local pharmacy, hardware store or fuel dealer)) is 6.2 lbs/gallon. Most WWF is 20%-30% methanol. (8.3x.7) + (6.2x.3)=7.7lbs/gallon for 30%. Or, another way of looking at it is that WWF 30% methanol is about 92% as heavy as plain water.

So, if plain water is 1200lbs for your tractor, 30% methanol would be about 1100lbs. Not bad.

Don't forget it is dangerous to drink, bathe in or snort methanol.

 

[canoetrpr]

So, if plain water is 1200lbs for your tractor, 30% methanol would be about 1100lbs. Not bad.

Not bad at all.

 

[aczlan]

Don't forget it is dangerous to drink, bathe in or snort methanol.

What if you sniff it?

Aaron Z