VW Clean diesels.... how did they get them so clean?

[truckdiagnostics]

Interesting thing at this point is going to be making demands on VW such that they remain solvent. A company that goes bankrupt can't repair anything. So, the debate becomes"fix" and solvent. if one makes demands such that a company just throws there arms up and runs not going to do anybody any good. So, inspite of how wrong VW is or was the EPA does need to play nice or there just plain ain't going to happen because the money won't be there.

 

[California]

I know we want the facts here and nothing but the facts - don't remember where I read it and cannot relocate it due to the forefront VW debacle, but somewhere I read the EPA is shooting for the diesels to produce cleaner air from the exhaust than goes in through the intake.

I recall reading something like that except as I recall it was Toyota claiming one of their gas engines and exhaust systems could output exhaust cleaner than the intake air. If they were making that comparison in Beijing for example, it may well be credible.

Beijing ... Saturday ... reported the poisonous, tiny articles of PM2.5 at 391 micrograms per cubic meter. The World Health Organization considers the safe level at 25 micrograms... (more)

Anybody here want to ignore the World Health Organization and make us more like China? ... I didn't think so.

 

[IslandTractor]

Interesting thing at this point is going to be making demands on VW such that they remain solvent. A company that goes bankrupt can't repair anything. So, the debate becomes"fix" and solvent. if one makes demands such that a company just throws there arms up and runs not going to do anybody any good. So, inspite of how wrong VW is or was the EPA does need to play nice or there just plain ain't going to happen because the money won't be there.

Don't feel sorry for VW. They as sitting on something like 18 billion in cash reserves and could afford to pay far more than that without going bankrupt. The two families that own the majority of the stock are not going to starve if VW profits take a hit for the next decade and if worst comes to worst, Germany can always bail them out. VW is virtually a privately held company with the only significant stock holders besides the two families being the labor union and the state that they are headquartered in.

 

[truckdiagnostics]

Don't feel sorry for VW. They as sitting on something like 18 billion in cash reserves and could afford to pay far more than that without going bankrupt. The two families that own the majority of the stock are not going to starve if VW profits take a hit for the next decade and if worst comes to worst, Germany can always bail them out. VW is virtually a privately held company with the only significant stock holders besides the two families being the labor union and the state that they are headquartered in.

That maybe very well be true, but that does not necessarily help the privately owned dealerships or vehicles here in the US, and i find it hard to believe they will be able to get the money held in Germany. So, once again it will be interesting to see how this plays out, and feeling sorry for VW has nothing to do with it. And if they tie things up in the courts for years before they do anything, most of the offending vehicles will be off the road and what did that accomplish for the environment except line the pockets of the lawyers and pay a bunch of fines after the fact. So if the EPA is on the side of the environment they will get a douse of reality back up and come up with a responsible requirement. if they are not and just want the money to line there bureaucratic pockets, they will sue VW into oblivion and take the money.

 

[California]

Doesn't it seem like the most likely outcome is: the cars will get reprogrammed to conform, with a serious hit to performance. Then maybe a compensation payment - after years in the courts - to the owners to reflect their losses in fuel cost, resale value, and maybe owner satisfaction.

VW can afford this.

I doubt getting the whole fleet off the road and sent to the crusher (and free replacements to the owners?) is a likely scenario.

 

[IslandTractor]

Doesn't it seem like the most likely outcome is: the cars will get reprogrammed to conform, with a serious hit to performance. Then maybe a compensation payment - after years in the courts - to the owners to reflect their losses in fuel cost, resale value, and maybe owner satisfaction. VW can afford this. I doubt getting the whole fleet off the road and sent to the crusher (and free replacements to the owners?) is a likely scenario.

Completely agree.

The other issues are what will it take for VW to rebuild consumer confidence and maintain dealer loyalty.

With this VW fiasco the passenger diesel has taken a serious hit that it may never recover from. Hybrids are so good now that diesel is no longer the clear mpg champ. Indeed for suburban and urban driving the hybrid wins easily. Direct injection gas engines have also cut quite a bit of the diesel advantage over gas and the new gas engines are less expensive. Gone to are the days when only diesel engines could be relied to last more than 150,000 miles.

Interesting times for both VW and small diesel engines.

 

[California]

Gas engines don't have a problem. Noncompliance by gas engines had been a related question. The German government has accepted VW's analyses showing only a tiny fraction of their gas engines (36,000 vehicles) may need minor tinkering to conform, so VW gas engine vehicles are entirely unrelated to the diesel fraudulent test results issue. VW's stock price jumped up on the news.

AFP Article:
Volkswagen says off hook on CO2 emissions - Yahoo News

 

[CobyRupert]

"Clean diesel" isn't clean? You mean it was just a marketing ploy?! Gasp! What next, a revelation that the smokestacks of "Clean Coal" plants don't emit potpourri scented rosé pedals that float down and restore mountain tops ?

 

[IslandTractor]

"Clean diesel" isn't clean? You mean it was just a marketing ploy?! Gasp! What next, a revelation that the smokestacks of "Clean Coal" plants don't emit potpourri scented rosé pedals that float down and restore mountain tops ?

Next you will be implying that drinking lite beer doesn't make you lose weight! The more you drink the more weight you lose and the more good looking half naked women hang out with you.

 

[flusher]

Can't resist the EPA is a Johnny come lately...

CARB is where the leadership comes from and has always taken point...

Sorry, couldn't resist because my State is always the whipping boy...

I do worry when the envelope is pushed to far... the old Prado principal... you can clean up 80% of the problem for modest costs... the last 20% is where it gets expensive and other factors come into play...

California has been steadfast against Diesel passenger cars for a very long time... it was the super clean Diesels like VW advertised that changed this... at least in large part...

I think you mean the Pareto Principle, aka 80/20 rule.