Walmart brand tractor fluids

Sully2 · Jun 24, 2007

kenmac said:
Sisco may be selling the fine dining restaurant 100 % angus beef while, they are selling the bowling alley 100 % soy burger

Oh! Without a doubt the bowling alley is getting "road kill"..

kenmac · Jun 24, 2007

Oh! Without a doubt the bowling alley is getting "road kill"..

I think you've got it !

But, I thought we were on oil or water meters, beef, brand x that was bought at W.M. costing more/ less somewhere else etc, Whew !

this thread is sooo long, I Kinda forgot what the whole thread was started about. O' yea, tractor fluids !!

patrick_g · Jun 24, 2007

Farmwithjunk said:
Some of this is downright hilarious.

It's all about ON THE JOB PERFORMANCE.

I find the logic that more expensive is always better and cheap is always inferior absolutely ridiculous. By the same token, I can't see using a product just because it's the cheapest available. You DON'T always "get what you pay for". Sometimes you get MORE, sometimes you get LESS.

****, I wish you were running for office, you'd sure get my vote! What a breath of fresh air.

We live in a caveat emptor world that is too complicated for most of us and so we simplify. We make generalizations like you get what you pay for, quality costs more, and such marketing phrases that are there to pry you loose from more $ than is reasonable. Unfortunately most of us lack at least one of the following: the time or the ability to rightly divine the true situation regarding our purchases or the motivation or inclination. If everything in the world were as simple as turning on or off a light switch life would be easy because you can usually tell if you want the lights on or off but most things are more like dimmer controls and deciding how much light to adjust for is a whole lot more involved than an on-off switch.

Lubricants and related topics exceed religion or politics as a source of controversy with faith based acolytes and situationalists going at it tooth and claw. The scientific and engineering approach is to find test data that has been collected appropriately and to make economic decisions based on facts in evidence not on faith, gossip, or simple platitudes like "you get what you pay for."

It is difficult to be a knowledgeable consumer in all aspects and lubricants are one of the tough areas. We all like the illusion of being in control and in the know so when we get into an area where we really don't know our hole from a donkey (think about it) in the ground we tend to rely on simplifying assumptions (higher cost = higher quality) to get us through with our illusion of control and knowledge intact.

All we know for sure is that it costs more to make a high quality lubricant with excellent additive package than to make a substandard lubricant with minimal additive package. Unfortunately the selling price likely does not give an unambiguous indication of quality as the cheapest low quality product can be sold for a high price, especially to a true believer.

Bean counters at large fleet operations can tell you from experience what is economical. They will pay more for more quality if it helps the bottom line. If I wanted a hint about what oil to run in a 1/2 or 3/4 ton diesel truck I would not hesitate to emulate a large fleet operation as they will not knowingly over pay for the level of quality they get and they need to get good quality to ensure long life of expensive engines. If brand "Y" would improve there bottom line they would be using it.

Note: I do not claim they always buy the best lubricants available. They do try to buy the lubricants that will give them the best bottom line, the best compromise between engine longevity and lubricant cost. I do claim you won't go too far wrong using the same lubricants they use. Further, it is entirely possible that you are paying mostly for advertising and misinformation and not for lubricant quality when you pay for the higher priced product.

Even if a higher priced product is better, is it going to extend your engine life enough to give you a positive return on your investment?

For tractor fluid ideas I might look to see what the big boys who travel with the wheat harvest or the potato harvesters or other large operators are doing. Larger operations are more likely to NOT allow religious fervor to override engineering fact in fluid selection. My Kubota mech (factory trained and employed at a medium sized Kubota sales and service operation) swore me to secrecy before telling me what HST fluids to avoid and which had a history of working well in Kubota HST at significant savings over buying fluids in a Kubota labeled pail. We all know Kubota does not make fluids. Someone else does it for them and the same stuff is available under a different label for less.

Again, KUDOS to farmingwithjunk for his clear, concise, and informative post.

Pat

DieselPower · Jun 24, 2007

patrick_g said:
****, I wish you were running for office, you'd sure get my vote! What a breath of fresh air.

We live in a caveat emptor world that is too complicated for most of us and so we simplify. We make generalizations like you get what you pay for, quality costs more, and such marketing phrases that are there to pry you loose from more $ than is reasonable. Unfortunately most of us lack at least one of the following: the time or the ability to rightly divine the true situation regarding our purchases or the motivation or inclination. If everything in the world were as simple as turning on or off a light switch life would be easy because you can usually tell if you want the lights on or off but most things are more like dimmer controls and deciding how much light to adjust for is a whole lot more involved than an on-off switch.

Lubricants and related topics exceed religion or politics as a source of controversy with faith based acolytes and situationalists going at it tooth and claw. The scientific and engineering approach is to find test data that has been collected appropriately and to make economic decisions based on facts in evidence not on faith, gossip, or simple platitudes like "you get what you pay for."

It is difficult to be a knowledgeable consumer in all aspects and lubricants are one of the tough areas. We all like the illusion of being in control and in the know so when we get into an area where we really don't know our hole from a donkey (think about it) in the ground we tend to rely on simplifying assumptions (higher cost = higher quality) to get us through with our illusion of control and knowledge intact.

All we know for sure is that it costs more to make a high quality lubricant with excellent additive package than to make a substandard lubricant with minimal additive package. Unfortunately the selling price likely does not give an unambiguous indication of quality as the cheapest low quality product can be sold for a high price, especially to a true believer.

Bean counters at large fleet operations can tell you from experience what is economical. They will pay more for more quality if it helps the bottom line. If I wanted a hint about what oil to run in a 1/2 or 3/4 ton diesel truck I would not hesitate to emulate a large fleet operation as they will not knowingly over pay for the level of quality they get and they need to get good quality to ensure long life of expensive engines. If brand "Y" would improve there bottom line they would be using it.

Note: I do not claim they always buy the best lubricants available. They do try to buy the lubricants that will give them the best bottom line, the best compromise between engine longevity and lubricant cost. I do claim you won't go too far wrong using the same lubricants they use. Further, it is entirely possible that you are paying mostly for advertising and misinformation and not for lubricant quality when you pay for the higher priced product.

Even if a higher priced product is better, is it going to extend your engine life enough to give you a positive return on your investment?

Again, KUDOS to farmingwithjunk for his clear, concise, and informative post.

Pat

Pat I think this is the best post yet. I myself use the term "You get what you pay for." quite often. It is true however that it does not always hold true. Advertisers love using fancy slogans, flashy packaging and anything else to grab ones attention in hopes of a sale. As a lubricants salesman it never ceases to amaze me what lengths some advertisers will go through to sell a product. Every time I turn on the TV I am reminded. Oil that releases some magical pack of wild Stallions in your engine or how about 100 gallons of sludge falling out of the sky. I do get a good chuckle out of some of them. The best thing to do is research whatever product you are looking at and try to make the most well informed decision you can on your purchase.

In the lubricants world these day's there are very few "poor" lubricants. Most everything you see meets manufacturers spec along with API, NGLI, ILSAC..... and the list goes on. The majority of popular name brand lubricants are just fine when used with regular scheduled maintenance intervals. It tends to get a little foggy from here. Sometimes it's difficult to distinguish a superior lubricants company from one selling what is known in the trade as "snake oil". When researching a company try to look for a company with a good history/track record. How long have they been in business, do they sell API licensed oil, check the BBB to see if they have any complaints filed against them. Another thing to do is look for a company that has a sales force that will spend as much time as necessary with you helping you with your lubricants choice. Many times a company will have multiple different products in specific areas that you could chose from. They should be willing to spend as much time as necessary with you to go over all the different options you have, explain why one is better than another and what benefits there are to each product. The more questions a salesman ask the better. He is trying to make sure you get the proper lubricant for your specific application. Sometimes a sales person may not have all the answers but they should be able to get you the answers you are looking for. It could be as simple as having them call their main office and speaking with a tribologist to get you some data. Those that seem in a rush and don't offer much info are probably looking for a quick one time sale.

Probably the best judge of any lubricant is not a data sheet, sales pitch or how fancy their packaging is. The best judge of how well a lubricant performs is how happy their customers are. Customers that are happy with the product they are using tend to recommend it to their friends. Ask your salesman if they can provide any testimonials from customers. When a customer takes the time to write a letter back to the manufacturer it usually means they were very happy with its performance.

kenmac · Jun 24, 2007

"You get what you pay for " Hummm, I use this term alot in my a/c / plumbing business. Mabe I should say , Would you like to purchase the cheap brand faucet or the expensive brand ? Want a W.M. brand faucet that I can replace in 6 mo. to a year or a brand name that will last for years ? Pay me now or pay me later. doesn't matter to me !

mrutkaus · Jun 24, 2007

I'm almost making the oil forum here my home page!

Wonderful intelligent learning posts, thanks.

Another point: bottom line may not matter to some. Cars/tractors are a hobby for me and perhaps others. I just enjoy taking good care of them and when everything works out well it is rewarding.

Mike

patrick_g · Jun 24, 2007

DieselPower said:
I myself use the term "You get what you pay for." quite often. It is true however that it does not always hold true.

No one needs to justify their purchases to us here on this board. Like mrutkaus said, he just likes taking good care of his stuff. Folks with one animal may lavish lots of attention on it and buy its food at a pet boutique and if that works for them then fine. If they had a hundred animals to feed they would likely be looking into the nutritional requirements and how to best meet them for a reasonable price.

Kenmac, it is more likely that they can pay now or pay MORE later. Like some folks get INTO gas mileage and drive around on rock hard tires with the thinest synthetic oil in the crankcase, others go overboard on other factors.

It is not easy to be an informed consumer on all topics (virtually impossible) so sometimes you have to make choices that ensure you are doing "GOOD ENOUGH" maybe not the best possible but good enough and that is OK, especially with lubricants as DieselPower said, most lubricants these days meet most specs or at least if you shop by API (American Petroleum Institute) and other useful and recognized ratings you can meet and probably exceed the manufacturer's requirements for your equipment.

If it costs $20 more per oil change to get another 1/2 of one percent total engine life over a couple hundreds of thousands of miles is it worth it. I think a lot of what sells the top priced oils is snob appeal and ignorance. You position yourself as the paragon of lubricational activity while the reality is you may not be able to make a properly reasoned decision so you err on the side of "if it is the highest price it must be the best or at least good enough."

Sort of back to the light dimmer being too complicated and needs to be just an on off switch with ON = highest price lubricant. No analysis required no thinking required, no headaches from trying to understand tech stuff AND you get braggin' rights.

Pat

BTDT · Jun 24, 2007

I guess the same argument/thinking could be applied to tires, belts, hoses, sparkplugs, batteries, women, etc. WOMEN??? Yep, they are all females, and as we well know they all pretty much can accomplish the same thing, but some cost (higher maintenance) more than others.

patrick_g · Jun 24, 2007

Yeah sure, all women are alike just like all food tastes the same and all meat tastes like chicken (maybe if you have no sense of smell or taste!)

I think we are beyond the "they are all alike" phase into the how to pick one that will accomplish your goals in a reasonable and business like fashion with an eye on the bottom line and diminishing returns. Yeah, I see what you mean the above DOES APPLY to women!

Pat (My wife does not read posts here!!!)