Walmart brand tractor fluids

[DieselPower]

Is the additive package THAT important?

Then why isn't it part of the oil spec?

I think it's all marketing hooey... IF the additives ARE imperative (as many of you believe) it would be part of the specification...correct? If they're not (as me and others think) then they're not in the specification and are unneeded...correct? What I'm saying is that the standards for oil increase all the time, SA, SB, SJ, whatever...so with all that increase in the standard, why isn't there an inclusion of somebody's "additive package" if it's THAT good?

Name brand or generic...all the same thing except the profit. As long as it meets the standards. These arguments about Chinese and Indian knockoffs are ludicrous. We're NOT talking about knockoffs or illegal inferior imports, we're talking about American made products, meeting the standards.

If I understand correctly...the difference between dino and synthetic oil is simply this: Dino is crude broken down to become whatever viscosity the oil ends up being. Synthetic is crude broken WAY down and then "built up" to be the thicker oil it ends up being. It's STILL plain old crude turned into oil. Close enough description?

Believe what you like but the additive package is one of the key factors that makes one lubricant superior to another. High end oils can have as much as 5 times the additive package when compared to their cheap counterpart. Hydraulic/UTF type oils are a good example. A cheap oil may only pass the oxidation test at 1,000 to 2,000 hours while a high end one will go 10,000+ hours. What's the difference, the base stock and additive package. You get what you pay for.

"What I'm saying is that the standards for oil increase all the time, SA, SB, SJ, whatever...so with all that increase in the standard, why isn't there an inclusion of somebody's "additive package" if it's THAT good?"

I'm not sure if I completely understand this question but here goes. When oil spec's are "updated" from lets say CI-4 to CJ-4 they are very different. The newest CJ-4 engine oils are a good example. They are the most drastically different change in engine oil formulation since the inception of the API rating. It cost around $520,000 to get a engine oil certified CJ-4. Add multi-ratings like CJ-4/SM and the cost of certification goes up to about $840,000. Oil is very expensive to formulate and test.

So, every time a new more modern certification comes out all the manufacturers have to update (reformulate) their oil to meet the new spec. It's not that their old oil meets the new spec, it's a whole new oil formulation.

 

[joerocker]

I guess my point is this...why isn't there ONE "uber oil"?

Since everyone has their own "additive package", doesn't it follow that the additives are nothing more than a marketing ploy? If one oil is "the best", why couldn't it automatically meet the new standard? And, if your engine only requires an older oil standard, shouldn't ANY of the newer higher standard oils be MORE than adequate? Especially since NO older oil that DID meet the old standard was good enough to "automatically" meet the new standard?

You wrote: "A cheap oil may only pass the oxidation test at 1,000 to 2,000 hours while a high end one will go 10,000+ hours. What's the difference, the base stock and additive package. You get what you pay for."

OK, but I change my tractor oil at 100 hours! So, the "cheap" oil lasts 10-20 times longer than I require. WHY would I spend extra money on an oil that lasts 1,000 times longer than I need?

I've always believed that ANY oil is fine... BUT, you have to change it regularly, at LEAST as often as recommended.

Now, if I were running a fleet of trucks and wanted to squeeze EVERY last mile before oil changes...maybe I could see your point. But I STILL can't understand WHY if the additives are so important, WHY there isn't "THE OIL" that EVERY trucking company uses...

I think that oil is like gasoline. There is a standard for oil and an "octane standard" for gas. As long as your oil or gas meets the standard, it will be fine for you to use. It doesn't matter what brand oil you use, it also doesn't matter which brand gas you use as long as it meets the octane standard for your vehicle. The marketers will TRY to convince you that there is a HUGE benefit to using their product but in the end...it doesn't matter which you choose.

It's your money, spend it as you wish.

 

[SkyPup]

Ya know.. I did a double take on that message. I just happened to have my last quarterly statement from my health ins co.. shows my docotr visits and prescrips for quarter and to dat / year. I do see that I have had plenty of meds that were generic.. and in fact.. only one that was non generic. Looking at the manufacturers of those generics.. I see some of them are offshore companies.

So far my hand and back havn't rotted off./out from infection.. so I'd say the offshore companies that have FDA approval to sell meds to pharmacies here are doing pretty good!!

Soundguy

Then you need to do a triple take on that message -> Haven't you heard about all the counterfeiting and placebos being sold as the "real" thing yet?

 

[Soundguy]

I assume walgreens looks for that kind of stuff right?

There are plenty of drug companies that are not american owned.. that was my point... Just because they are not amaerican owned does not mean they cannot or do not produce good meds.

Who was making our flue shots for years past? Foriegn co's. right??

Soundguy

Then you need to do a triple take on that message -> Haven't you heard about all the counterfeiting and placebos being sold as the "real" thing yet?

 

[Offy]

Where did the zinc in the motor oils go, my new cam wants to know?

 

[DieselPower]

Where did the zinc in the motor oils go, my new cam wants to know?

Been sleeping for a few years have we. They started to lower zinc levels in "S" category gas engine oil way back when catalytic converters became common on vehicles. It's been a downward slope of the zinc levels ever since. The zinc along with some other additives tend (so they say) to plug up the converters. For years antique car buffs and high performance engine people have been using "C" category diesel engine oils because they still had a very robust zinc additive package. With the introduction of the CJ-4 category oil the zinc level has now started to drop in diesel engine oil as well. The reason, converters on diesels or as they are more commonly known, DPF (diesel particulate filters).

I guess my point is this...why isn't there ONE "uber oil"?

Since everyone has their own "additive package", doesn't it follow that the additives are nothing more than a marketing ploy? If one oil is "the best", why couldn't it automatically meet the new standard? And, if your engine only requires an older oil standard, shouldn't ANY of the newer higher standard oils be MORE than adequate? Especially since NO older oil that DID meet the old standard was good enough to "automatically" meet the new standard?

You wrote: "A cheap oil may only pass the oxidation test at 1,000 to 2,000 hours while a high end one will go 10,000+ hours. What's the difference, the base stock and additive package. You get what you pay for."

OK, but I change my tractor oil at 100 hours! So, the "cheap" oil lasts 10-20 times longer than I require. WHY would I spend extra money on an oil that lasts 1,000 times longer than I need?

I've always believed that ANY oil is fine... BUT, you have to change it regularly, at LEAST as often as recommended.

Now, if I were running a fleet of trucks and wanted to squeeze EVERY last mile before oil changes...maybe I could see your point. But I STILL can't understand WHY if the additives are so important, WHY there isn't "THE OIL" that EVERY trucking company uses...

I think that oil is like gasoline. There is a standard for oil and an "octane standard" for gas. As long as your oil or gas meets the standard, it will be fine for you to use. It doesn't matter what brand oil you use, it also doesn't matter which brand gas you use as long as it meets the octane standard for your vehicle. The marketers will TRY to convince you that there is a HUGE benefit to using their product but in the end...it doesn't matter which you choose.

It's your money, spend it as you wish.

Engine oils tend to change with each new API category because of emissions standards. The new category's tend to be implemented due to new engine designs brought on by emissions changes. The new CJ-4 diesel engine oil is a good example. With the addition of the DPF's as mentioned above they had to make some rather drastic changes in the formulation so the engine oil does not contaminate the DPF's. Other things that usually happen in new category oils is higher anti-wear standards, deposit standards, coaking test standards.... and the list goes on. Engine oils tend to actually change formulation with each new API category. The main reason for major changes in combustion engine oils is that they have to deal with combustion byproducts and those standards are alway's changing with new technology engines.

Other oils like gear oils, hydraulic/UFT oils may not change at all. I know TRC's oils usually don't change at all in their formulation when a manufacturer comes out with a new standard. The current formulation already exceeds the standards.

Why don't all lubricant manufacturers use the same additive package is kind of like asking why Joe Snuffy's chocolate chip cookies taste better than Humpty Dumpty's chocolate chip cookies. Different ingredients, manufacturing process, cost.... High end lubricants manufacturers make lubricants to meet a need not a cost.

The oxidation test I used as a example is only one of many standards. With high end lubricants you also get better performance, greater equipment life, reduced wear and longer lubricant life.

As for changing the oil at manufacturers times, I don't. I change my lubricants as dictated by UOA's. If the oil is not bad, contamination and wear metal levels are within standards and the additive package is still good there is no reason to change it.

 

[SkyPup]

I assume walgreens looks for that kind of stuff right?

There are plenty of drug companies that are not american owned.. that was my point... Just because they are not amaerican owned does not mean they cannot or do not produce good meds.

Who was making our flue shots for years past? Foriegn co's. right??

Soundguy

After working with the FDA intimately for the last twenty five years and having our meds shipped directly from the pharma in a locked safe with a legal chain of command of everyone who touched the shipment from origin to patient, and still getting illegal counterfeit drugs, I would not put a single grain of faith in your opinion on this subject....

BTW, same goes for cross labeling of consumer oil products at discount wholesale outlets too!

 

[Soundguy]

Well.. you may have no faith in my opinion .. however.. Past what I have posted then.. there is virtually NO way for a consumer to know the real origin of the meds he buys from a real pharmacy if I interpret your message correctly.

Thusly.. worrying about meds form a fireign co.. and chastizing someone for not buying from an american company is a QUITE MOOT POINT if we ( the consumer, the FDA, the pharmacy, the distribuitor ) have -0- knowledge of origin.. or control over such.... so why even bring it up ??? What was the point ??

Kinda like being on a crashing airplane and the guy in the seat next you you asks you if you want peanuts or chewing gum before you crash.. after you tell him which you want he then says he has neither... IE.. what was the point of him asking ???

It's issues just like this that make it so that i have to click "view this post" on some peoples message headers and not others..... .........


Soundguy

After working with the FDA intimately for the last twenty five years and having our meds shipped directly from the pharma in a locked safe with a legal chain of command of everyone who touched the shipment from origin to patient, and still getting illegal counterfeit drugs, I would not put a single grain of faith in your opinion on this subject....

BTW, same goes for cross labeling of consumer oil products at discount wholesale outlets too!

 

[joerocker]

Why don't all lubricant manufacturers use the same additive package is kind of like asking why Joe Snuffy's chocolate chip cookies taste better than Humpty Dumpty's chocolate chip cookies. Different ingredients, manufacturing process, cost.... High end lubricants manufacturers make lubricants to meet a need not a cost.

I think this is a great way to explain it. ALL manufacturers have their OWN idea of what is better and add what they want. There isn't ONE "best" formulation for oil just as there isn't ONE best recipe for cookies. What you may love, I despise.

You and I are two different people. I change my oil at regular intervals, LESS than required by the manufacturer using cheap oil. You go as long between as possible, determined by the ACTUAL condition of the oil. For people like you, a "better" more expensive oil is possibly a necessity, for people like me, ANY oil that meets the specs is fine.

Agreed?

Nice information...thank you for posting it.

 

[D7E]

We've been using cheap oil for years , engine , hydraulic and hy-tran with engine oil changes at 150-200 hours and vever had a problem with pressure or anything else .
From 50 hp toy tractors to 14 liter cummins in tractors and trucks, $100,000 combines and vintage CAT's no problem , And using up tp 100 gallons a year it's a **** of a saving .
Wal-mart hy-tran = $29
co-op hy-tran = $70 per pail
and name brand higher still .
Usually fleetguard filters but no problem with fram either .