Welding a hydraulic anchor point

[Oldie68]

Yeh it does look like that weld was just laying on top with little penetration.

You got a real mig or you mean flux core "mig"? If it's real mig 110v, maybe considering switching polarity, tossing in some flux core wire and welding it that way. You'll get more penetration from flux core than mig. Me with my stick welder, 6011 on that, I'd have some uglyass welds (coz I suck at welding) but it would definitely hold.

Like etpm says, practice a little on some spare metal before going to town on this. But with that said, weld that sheeeeit!

I;ve been using flux core wire fer most of my odd jobs however, such as boltering my perforsted but not busted dodge dakota truck frame with angle and 1/8" plate
My Licoln Mig Pak 10 is a wire feed mig with capability of using gas as well.
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[Oldie68]

The design of those mounting ears is, ummm, how do is say this politely. The design of the mounting ears sux. Best to just toss them and start over. There are reasons that cylinders are mounted on doublers with long triangular bases to spread the load over a greater area. Especially the dipper stick and bucket cylinder mounts. I have never seen a dipper stick cylinder mount like this. See pics for reference. Do you have an overall photo of the boom and dipper?

Unfortunately this repair needs more than just welding the original part back on. This also really needs stick welding or high power MIG to get the proper penetration. How soon can you have 230v power? Do you have a 230v generator? Can you borrow or rent one?

But there is still the basic issue of the design of the cylinder mounting ears. These need to be redone to have any hope of surviving. If you manage to get good penetration, i predict the base metal will tear out (again).

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Can't view those attachments message says I don't have permission.

 

[jthibodeau89]

Can't view those attachments message says I don't have permission.

How about now?

 

[Smokeydog]

The factory mounting lugs were not the best design. Should have bigger base flares to distribute the forces. Consider making new mounting plates.

The repair welds are too cold and not penetrating into the boom steel. Poor Technique or welder settings.

Could you repair with a 110V welder? Yes, but will take considerable more skill, fabrication, preparation and time than with a bigger welder.

A challenging repair. Good learning project and reason to try and test new skills.

 

[rScotty]

It's a little hard to tell but it looks like most of the weld did not penetrate enough for most of the area where the weld was attempted. A classic symptom of not enough heat, it was just laying on top of the metal. So it peeled away. Where it did stick, since the area was so small, it was subjected to too much load and broke the parent metal.
If you think you have enough skill to re-weld this then my advice is to first practice on some similar thickness metal. Even 10 minutes practice just before you do the real weld will help a lot. But I would do a little more than 10 minutes. Maybe 11 or 12. Or 30. Anyway, aside from practice you should grind away as much of the crappy weld as possible. It stuck so poorly to the large piece it probably isn't stuck very well to the smaller pieces.
After all the crappy original weld is ground away you could consider welding the cylinder mount to a piece of 1/8 thick steel that is considerably larger than the area the mount was welded to. Then this plate could be welded to the large piece. It would need to be welded all around the perimeter. But you would also need to drill a bunch of holes through the plate, about 1/2 inch or so in diameter. Then you need to weld through these holes to the parent metal. These types of welds are called plug welds.
It would probably help a lot to pre-heat the steel before welding. Heating to even 400 degrees will make a big difference when it comes to proper penetration.
Good Luck,
Eric

That's right. I hate to say this, but I'd start over. IMHO, that lug attachment is just too light throughout. I think that you can keep sticking it back on there and it will keep tearing loose. I doubt if it will hold up even if it was perfectly welded.

What it needs is for the lug to be reworked on a bench to make up a lug having a wider thicker base with more area and a lot better support where the ears attach to the base. To get that support, it would help if both lug and base were thicker too.

Then the newly reinforced lug & base piece needs to be welded back into place using using more heat so as to get a weld with more overlap & penetration.
rScotty

 

[LD1]

Im having a hard time seeing the "whole" picture. Can you take a step back and get a picture of the whole hoe.

In general I agree the mounting tabs are not of the best design....but some small hoes dont generate alot of force and maybe they skimped.

It certainly looks like there is room for improvement....but again, without seeing the "whole" picture, its hard to form a conclusion

 

[ptsg]

Here are a couple pictures from the OP's backhoe he shared on another thread. The broken mounts are the ones for the dipper cylinder.

It's a small backhoe and those cylinder mounts are just fine for this application. Just needs to get properly welded and it will be good to go again.

 

[ovrszd]

A challenging repair. Good learning project and reason to try and test new skills.

Yep. A great project for a cold day in a warm shop. I tend to overbuild. I'd enjoy fixing that mess.

 

[ovrszd]

Im having a hard time seeing the "whole" picture. Can you take a step back and get a picture of the whole hoe.

In general I agree the mounting tabs are not of the best design....but some small hoes dont generate alot of force and maybe they skimped.

It certainly looks like there is room for improvement....but again, without seeing the "whole" picture, its hard to form a conclusion

Common mistake. People tend to think they gotta get a closeup. With digital technology zoom accomplishes that. A broader pic from a good angle. Then the viewer can zoom in/out until they see whatever they are trying to see.

 

[ovrszd]

Here are a couple pictures from the OP's backhoe he shared on another thread. The broken mounts are the ones for the dipper cylinder.

It's a small backhoe and those cylinder mounts are just fine for this application. Just needs to get properly welded and it will be good to go again.

Thanks Pedro. That's what we needed. I agree the tabs could be properly welded and they would stay. With that said, it would also be easy to brace them with pie shaped pieces and triple the strength pretty quick.

 

[4570Man]

Thanks Pedro. That's what we needed. I agree the tabs could be properly welded and they would stay. With that said, it would also be easy to brace them with pie shaped pieces and triple the strength pretty quick.

I don’t imagine those tabs will ever stay. Even if a good welder welded them. The boom skin isn’t that thick. It will just deform or tear it if the tab doesn’t break first.

 

[Smokeydog]

Wouldn’t take much to greatly to strengthen the original design. Then be able to make repairs on similar mounting anchors if required.

Without knowing the OP skills and resources hard to be specific. Looks like a fun project to gain some skills and enjoy your success. We all had to start somewhere.

 

[jthibodeau89]

That's a cute little hoe. I agree with the previous comments. A doubler on the boom and a longer ear on the boom would be great improvements. I would support the boom and bucket cylinder mounts while the welder was fired up.

 

[ovrszd]

I don’t imagine those tabs will ever stay. Even if a good welder welded them. The boom skin isn’t that thick. It will just deform or tear it if the tab doesn’t break first.

Very possible. Which is probably what happened in the first failure.

 

[LouNY]

I'm of the build it stout school;
Just guessing as to the dimensions of those flat stock ears.
But I would definitely call it less then 4" tall and 2" wide and likely 3/8" thick.
I would get a couple of pieces of 3/8" angle iron x 4 or whatever the height is,
cut the bottoms to length to fit the boom width make them say 3" long.
Set them on the boom with the L's facing out from the center of the boom,
use a bolt the right diameter to fit the pin hole and bolt the L's to the cylinder tang
with a couple of washers for freeplay and weld it down remove the bolt and washers
install the pin hit it with some paint and call it a day.

 

[erikjohn67]

I agree also that is a cute little hoe, but it’s closer to glorified shovel than it is to a real backhoe. That being said it will save your back on little projects.

If it was mine I would cut some 3/8”plate roughly 8 inches long and cut it to the rounded profile of the boom and fillet weld it all around for the new ears to grab the cylinder. It will never break there again……it will break somewhere else though.

 

[ovrszd]

I agree also that is a cute little hoe, but it’s closer to glorified shovel than it is to a real backhoe. That being said it will save your back on little projects.

If it was mine I would cut some 3/8”plate roughly 8 inches long and cut it to the rounded profile of the boom and fillet weld it all around for the new ears to grab the cylinder. It will never break there again……it will break somewhere else though.

The backhoe's abilities are measured in whether you have ahold of the shovel handle or not. For the OP, it beats the H out of the shovel handle. Might not be the case for you.

 

[Vigo327]

Im no expert either with backhoes or welding but I have a Kubota with a backhoe and I have a 110v flux core machine that I have really stretched the limits of (tons of preheat, upgraded ground cable/clamp, etc) and it STILL won't do what really needs to be done there.

I don't think the fact that the backhoe is small really matters that much because if the pressure in that circuit is high enough and you manage to get the tractor/hoe between a rock and a hard place it will push/pull until that mount breaks. Just because its a small tractor and a small backhoe bucket doesn't mean you cant use the hoe in a way that is pulling the tractor against the ground and pulling up on something that isn't going to move. At that point the only reason that mount WOULDNT fail would be if the pressure relief in the hoe circuit was set low. We don't know that..

If i was to hire someone to fix that I'd have them improve the boom lift one too. All the other ones look fine to me.

I have a b6100 with a loader and i was planning to build a backhoe for it until i got a crazy deal on a b8200 that already had a backhoe on it. I'm really surprised how tiny this little backhoe on the b6000 is, ive never actually seen one that small. Looks like it might dig to about 5 feet? Im curious to see more of how it's attached to the tractor.

The one on my b8200 digs to 6.5ft and i think it's too small (they also sold b8200 with a 7.5ft model) and if i were to continue my original plan to build something for the b6100 id be shooting for a 7.5ft+ reach/dig.it Unlike some people on this forum I have used a borrowed mini-ex and it did not remove all desire to have a tractor backhoe, or have a better one!

 

[Oldie68]

Maybe. The real question is are you good enough?

I ended up taking it to a pro who fabricated new attaching moints and welded a reingorcing plate the welded er all up. Now i can lift the rear of the tractor with the bucket so should be good now

 

[Oldie68]

Im no expert either with backhoes or welding but I have a Kubota with a backhoe and I have a 110v flux core machine that I have really stretched the limits of (tons of preheat, upgraded ground cable/clamp, etc) and it STILL won't do what really needs to be done there.

I don't think the fact that the backhoe is small really matters that much because if the pressure in that circuit is high enough and you manage to get the tractor/hoe between a rock and a hard place it will push/pull until that mount breaks. Just because its a small tractor and a small backhoe bucket doesn't mean you cant use the hoe in a way that is pulling the tractor against the ground and pulling up on something that isn't going to move. At that point the only reason that mount WOULDNT fail would be if the pressure relief in the hoe circuit was set low. We don't know that..

If i was to hire someone to fix that I'd have them improve the boom lift one too. All the other ones look fine to me.

I have a b6100 with a loader and i was planning to build a backhoe for it until i got a crazy deal on a b8200 that already had a backhoe on it. I'm really surprised how tiny this little backhoe on the b6000 is, ive never actually seen one that small. Looks like it might dig to about 5 feet? Im curious to see more of how it's attached to the tractor.

The one on my b8200 digs to 6.5ft and i think it's too small (they also sold b8200 with a 7.5ft model) and if i were to continue my original plan to build something for the b6100 id be shooting for a 7.5ft+ reach/dig.it Unlike some people on this forum I have used a borrowed mini-ex and it did not remove all desire to have a tractor backhoe, or have a better one!