Welding Rods for beginners

[void777]

30 years cert. welder fitter to learn first clean is your best friend heat the metal till the moisture drys 5 to 10 sec start with 6010 learn to strike an arc without sticking the rod then learn to make puddles then stack the puddles until they look like dimes laying on top each other. Rods to keep on hand unless you use them up quick buy fresh 6010 3/32 1/8 7018 3/32 1/8 7023 (jet)1/8 5/32 learn and you should be able to service most things around your place protective equipment is a MUST.

 

[void777]

30 years cert. welder fitter to learn first clean is your best friend heat the metal till the moisture drys 5 to 10 sec start with 6010 learn to strike an arc without sticking the rod then learn to make puddles then stack the puddles until they look like dimes laying on top each other. Rods to keep on hand unless you use them up quick buy fresh 6010 3/32 1/8 7018 3/32 1/8 7023 (jet)1/8 5/32 learn and you should be able to service most things around your place protective equipment is a MUST.

 

[void777]

Sorry about the double post.

 

[Arc weld]

I think you meant 7024 but 7014 is a similar all position rod. 6010/6011 and 7018 are the go rods. 7014 is as easy to use as 6013 but is stronger, has better penetration and wetting and way less chance of getting slag inclusions. Shield Arc didn't post his 6013 break test results for good reason. When he picked up the hammer to hit them, they almost broke on their own. Actually 6010/6011 work good on thin material because you can turn the heat down and whip them all over the place and basically put tacks on tacks because they have a lot less slag and burn through it. If you can set it up for downhand/downhill welding you can go pretty fast. 6010/6011 are about the only rods that can make a strong weld going downhill. 7018 for maximum strength, 7014 for general welding and 6010 for dirty or rusty steel or running a pass for deep penetration(filling a gap) often covered with 7018 or 7014.

 

[daugen]

this is great help, thanks. I'm a retired insurance guy and an old volunteer fireman, and for sure I am determined not to burn my barn down, so....probably a bit overkill, but better safe than sorry:
2 6x8 foot welding screens, together they will block off the welding area from everything else
2 welding blankets
a good autodarkening helmet with a 2x magnifier inside (still have to install that)
gloves, non flammable shirt
2 10ABC fire extinguishers plus one pressurized water, all commercial grade
a separate electrical circuit just for the welder (I wound up rewiring my entire barn for this...groan)

a welding table, all the gadgets from Harbor Freight, clamps, magnets, etc.
what I really need is a comfortable sitting position to do this welding.
very bad arthritis, fused neck, etc, can't bend over a lot so must find comfortable position.
Luckily the working height of the mower deck can be changed once I figure out distances, length of rod,
all the stuff you experienced guys take for granted.

wish my barn was heated, this is not the week for welding, way too cold in there. Well, at least for the welder...

 

[newbury]

this is great help, thanks. I'm a retired insurance guy and an old volunteer fireman, and for sure I am determined not to burn my barn down, so....probably a bit overkill, but better safe than sorry:
2 6x8 foot welding screens, together they will block off the welding area from everything else
2 welding blankets
a good autodarkening helmet with a 2x magnifier inside (still have to install that)
gloves, non flammable shirt
2 10ABC fire extinguishers plus one pressurized water, all commercial grade
a separate electrical circuit just for the welder (I wound up rewiring my entire barn for this...groan)

a welding table, all the gadgets from Harbor Freight, clamps, magnets, etc.
what I really need is a comfortable sitting position to do this welding.
very bad arthritis, fused neck, etc, can't bend over a lot so must find comfortable position.
Luckily the working height of the mower deck can be changed once I figure out distances, length of rod,
all the stuff you experienced guys take for granted.

wish my barn was heated, this is not the week for welding, way too cold in there. Well, at least for the welder...

Drew, forget about the mower deck for now. Get a bunch small pieces of 1/4 flat stock and start sticking them together. Work on going from bird poop to stack of dimes. Figure out how you need to rest and hold things. Then buy a pound of 1/16 rod and practice some more on the thin metal that you are going to use on the deck.
Remember that the deck may have originally been a certain gauge but life has thinned it more. When I patched my mower (see pic) I continually blew holes even with 3/32. Finally found some 1/16" at Harbor Freight (had checked Airgas, TSC, HD, lowes) and managed to get a solid weld, which although looks terrible held up to some smacking and hours of use.

 

[LD1]

Learn on 7014. When you get the hang of it, try the 7018.

7018 can be very discouraging to a beginner. Slag don't chip as easy, rods tend to stick to the workpiece if you don't strike them right, and they can be difficult to restart because the electrode burns back in the slag a bit and glazes over with slag.

Start with the 7014 to build confidence.

Oh...And I seem to remember the mig welds on that hammer blow test beating all of the stick rods including 7018

 

[daugen]

I was going to cut up some of my flat stock and do exactly that. Still haven't found the right solution for cutting metal, using cut off wheels on hardened steel
is really a chore. I wish I hadn't bought the cheap chop saw and used the money instead for a powered metal hack saw. But I will use the non hardened steel to practice on, in
several thicknesses
The welding book has a lot of instructions on doing just this, practicing on this weld first, than that one, then a filet weld, then a vertical etc. I'm going to find a comfortable spot ergonomically to begin with, both standing and sitting, then work on the practicing. If I'm uncomfortable, I just won't do it. Or can't...

The use of thinner rods provides better results on thinner materials, did I understand that right? Plus dialing down the amps I'm sure.

 

[shadetree]

Go ahead and remove another variable (the always changing length the arc is from your hand) get a mig.

 

[daugen]

Go ahead and remove another variable (the always changing length the arc is from your hand) get a mig.

sorry, gotta run what I brung...stick and tig.
but I understand the advantage, which is why they brought it out to begin with right?

my understanding is a spool gun is used on both, you have to bring some new metal to the party,
and if the metal is laid down precisely as needed, seems like a a welder's version of a hot melt glue gun.
Except you have to melt what's underneath too...

reasonably sure I have some of this backwards...

 

[newbury]

<snip>
The use of thinner rods provides better results on thinner materials, did I understand that right? Plus dialing down the amps I'm sure.

Thinner rods require fewer amps, I'm sure SA can weld 16 gauge with his PA 300 and 1/8 rod but I was continually blowing holes in 10 gauge when I had mine cranked down to cold with 3/32.

sorry, gotta run what I brung...stick and tig.
but I understand the advantage, which is why they brought it out to begin with right?

my understanding is a spool gun is used on both, you have to bring some new metal to the party,
and if the metal is laid down precisely as needed, seems like a a welder's version of a hot melt glue gun.
Except you have to melt what's underneath too...

reasonably sure I have some of this backwards...

No, MIG doesn't require a spool gun, the spool is generally inside the machine. But stick is far better outside in windy dirty conditions.

 

[daugen]

Go ahead and remove another variable (the always changing length the arc is from your hand) get a mig.

I rethought what you suggested due to yet another variable.
I am getting physically more limited due to severe arthritis and spinal disease. I am losing my grip in my right hand, have carpal tunnel in both wrists even after operation,
and likely should not be welding at all...BUT...it's been on my bucket list for a long time and I've been looking forward to this for literally years. So my mind is writing all kinds of
checks my body can't cash any more. SO...is MIG easier to hold and use than TIG? I understand stick but not the other two. I guess I'm asking if I'm taking time to learn something while I really should be learning something else...and without having a commercial setup, and hopefully not a lot of flammable gas under roof.

 

[daugen]

Then buy a pound of 1/16 rod and practice some more on the thin metal that you are going to use on the deck.
the flat stock is way thicker, and hardened. Just what I need to weld a wheel support to.
So I have both thick and thin. The flat stock to replace the actual wheel support is one size thicker than what is in this pic. Pretty
heavy stuff.
The advice remains excellent...

btw, neither of those tools did the job. Had to get out my electric Dewalt 4.5 inch cut off tool
and that finally ground through it. Just got in a diamond cutting blade for the Dewalt, not an abrasive tool
at all. Am hoping this wheel will make working on this hardened steel a little easier on me.

 

[shadetree]

For me big A in the neck and limited bending of the back I find sitting with my head still - that mig is easier than stick. I know nothing of tig. Heck I hardly know nothing of nothing. Over 70 trying to teach myself. I'm just beginning to see the puddle. I want to weld garden tractor mufflers. I've gotten a couple cut down and welded back up. The 7014 worked best of the stick. Never could handle the 1/16 rods. Flux core mig gave me a little less that I had to think about. One little slip and instant hole. Now that I have gone to heavy metal with the flux core I feelI am beginning to make a little progress. Seeing the puddle was a big step. When I get to where I can get the same results over and over I will work my way back down to thinner metal. A very slight change that you may not even notice makes a big difference. The welders do things they learned over time that they don't even notice. I have never been able to get my puddle to look like the ones in the vidios or my welds to look good enough for a photo but some grind nicely and stay stuck together so my teacher says I'm already as good as he is...

 

[k0ua]

Here is a little beginner trick that will work for all sticks and doesn't cost anything. Cut your sticks in half. Thats right take your 'OLD' 9 inch electrician pliers, you know the ones with the knicks in the cutting edges, and cut your sticks in half, and then pound the flux off the piece that doesn't have a clean spot for your electrode holder and start welding with 7 inch sticks instead of 14 inch sticks.

What does this do for you? Well as a beginner, you don't have the eye hand coordination you need to strike and maintain the proper arc gap, and the longer sticks just make that worse. With shorter sticks you can strike and maintain easier.

Sure your sticks weld out quicker, and you have to make more stops and starts, but it will really help you in the control area.
It takes time and lots of practice to learn how to make the complex motions of moving the rod at the proper speed AND maintaining the proper arc length. Even when you KNOW what to do, you find yourself forgetting to actually do the right things because your "muscle memory" has not been fully developed yet.

Having just a bit more control with a shorter rod can help quite a bit. I have one of those cheap Harbor Freight folding welding tables that are a Chines knockoff of a well know American welding table, and I recommend getting one. This will allow you to sit down and work on things.

 

[daugen]

that's a great idea about using shorter sticks Jim, thanks. Just got back from local ironworks/welding shop and bought some flat steel from them,
1/4 by 4 inches by four feet, two pieces, for repairs on this deck and for stock. Funny they don't carry, and have never carried, any hardened steel. I was told 1/4 inch was plenty for
mower decks, what is that 6 gauge or something? Thankfully TSC has a piece of hardened steel, the one I was cutting above, that I can use in places that have clearly taken a beating
in the past.

I also asked (thank you Newbury) the ironworks guy if he had some scrap steel he could give me to practice on and he said sure, and gave me a whole bunch of small pieces for free.
Very nice guy, place looks like it has been there since the 1700's... huge ancient metal bandsaws, next time I'll take a picture. Now I know where to go to find anything I need, they had racks and racks of all kinds of steel. But none hardened; though I"m sure they can special order.

 

[Big Barn]

Wow.

Lots of helpful advice here. I wish you guys were around to help me 50 years ago.

Terry

 

[daugen]

Heck I hardly know nothing of nothing. Over 70 trying to teach myself. I'm just beginning to see the puddle

Man after my own heart and I'm 67. Puddle? Coming soon. See? You're an expert compared to me.

No matter what I'm going to have fun. I can always pay someone to do this but this is a skill I've always wanted to learn.
A certain level of self sufficiency I suppose. My father could not use an adjustable wrench but he had other skills...so I didn't inherit
any mechanical DNA unfortunately. It's all trial and error and studying as much as I can ahead of time and asking for advice.
Which here of course is fun by itself.

Now just how warm should my nice home oven get to bake these rods? They sure look like giant sparklers to me and putting something ignitable in the oven
just on basic principles gives me the willies. Lowest setting I'm sure.
Hey, maybe I can microwave them. Gosh that sounds like a great idea. Donny Darwin

 

[PJSprog]

New welder here, too, Drew. I picked up one of those HF 80A DC machines a few weeks ago, and have had a grand total of only about 1/2 hour on one day to play with it so far. The 1/16" 7014 from HF is a very easy stick to use to practice with, and I was getting decent beads on flat stock down to 55A. I like James' idea of half stick, too. People here are such a wealth of knowledge.

Yesterday I found a thread from back in 2011 in the welding forum where a bunch of people were discussing their favorite sticks and why. I won't link to it here, because it got rather contentious in the middle. But, if you can get past the section of strange personal attacks, there is some excellent knowledge to be gleaned there as well. A simple search will find it.

 

[k0ua]

The only rod we have mentioned that will benefit at all from a rod oven is 7018. The cellustic rods like 6010 and 6011 actually need moisture to run right. I don't have a rod oven for my 7018. Would they do a bit better hot? sure they would, but I don't make X ray welds, and I keep my 7018 in a gasketed sealed rod holder and call it good. I make an effort to not take out more 7018 rods than I will use right away and keep the container closed as much as possible, especially on high humidity days. Keep some silica gel packs in the rod holder. Don't worry about the rod oven daugen, you can get by just fine as a home welder without it.