What a Joke

[Bird]

Just a bit of advice, 20,000 miles isn't really even broken in yet. See what happens after 100K

I've owned over a dozen Fords used in commercial applications-plowing, construction, dumps, etc. Most were good, but they do break at the worst possible times.

I agree that 20k is just getting started, but I recently (12/8/07) rented a U-Haul 14' truck to help a daughter and her husband move. The truck was an F350. I didn't notice what year model it was, but I was surprised to see that it had 154k miles on it.

 

[rback33]

Most were good, but they do break at the worst possible times.

Don't they all?

 

[Diamondpilot]

You are right, they all break at the worst possible time, thats Murphy's law. If I am trying to go somewhere and it does not work, its the worst possible time. If I am trying to take a shower and the well pump fails, that the worst possible time. You cant schedule failures, they just happen.

Lets face it if you drive a Ford you think its the best. Same for GM, Dodge, Toyota, Nissan, ect. You would not buy a Dodge if you think the GM is better...

Chris

 

[tlbuser]

I pull a 30 foot goose neck trailer that is 6000 lbs empty, my trailer gross weight is actually in the 11,000 plus category.

Why are you using a 30 foot, 6000lb. trailer for ~a 5000 lb. load?

 

[jcmseven]

Builder,

Thanks for the advice. I do realize that 20,000 miles is not much on any unproven diesel, but as we both know, many times quality-related issues start early in the life of anything mechanical. I just managed to limp my dad's 206,000 mile f150 down to the recyling center, it ran fine, smooth (and gets almost 20 mpg!!!) I got some tires for it today, but due to its being a Ford I told the tire dealer to not give me tires that would last that long. It made it back OK though...another opportunity for disaster averted. If this 6.4 does that well, I would say it passed the test. At the rate I am currently driving it I should be there in 2015. Assuming at that point we can afford to drive (and by then we should both have over 10,000 posts--halfway to Bird) we can then discuss further whether it broke or not. Until then, it has proven a fine truck and a vast improvement over my 2002 model in almost every way. I think your experience has mainly also been with the previous generation. Am I correct about that, or have you owned a new one??


John M

 

[crashz]

I've owned late model Ford and GM 1/2 ton 4x4s that have been just flat out great trucks. They have logged well over 100K miles, towed, plowed snow, gotten stuck and unstuck with force, hauled and generally abused. They one caviot is that they were well maintained. I'm sure that would be the case with all of the manufactures.


One thing I would like to point out is that none of my 1/2 ton trucks are very comfortable doing tasks at the maximum GVW or GCVW. They are fine for occasionally towing (actually all have felt overworked at half the rated trailer load!), but putting 10K behind any 1/2 ton and towing a distance will just be a bad time. Its the owner's responsibility to pick the right size truck for the load, conditions and frequency of use.

 

[Builder]

Builder,

Thanks for the advice. I do realize that 20,000 miles is not much on any unproven diesel, but as we both know, many times quality-related issues start early in the life of anything mechanical. I just managed to limp my dad's 206,000 mile f150 down to the recyling center, it ran fine, smooth (and gets almost 20 mpg!!!) I got some tires for it today, but due to its being a Ford I told the tire dealer to not give me tires that would last that long. It made it back OK though...another opportunity for disaster averted. If this 6.4 does that well, I would say it passed the test. At the rate I am currently driving it I should be there in 2015. Assuming at that point we can afford to drive (and by then we should both have over 10,000 posts--halfway to Bird) we can then discuss further whether it broke or not. Until then, it has proven a fine truck and a vast improvement over my 2002 model in almost every way. I think your experience has mainly also been with the previous generation. Am I correct about that, or have you owned a new one??


John M

I go back to the mid 80'sd with Ford. Started with several 351 & 460 powered F-350 4x4's, went to F-350's w/7.3L N'A's and a couple early Powerstrokes. My last 3 Ford Superduties were (2) 7.3L F-350 4x4's and 1 F-450 4x4. Not bad trucks, but the transmissions were pathetic. After GM introduced the Allison medium duty trans and an 11.5" true locker behind the DMAX, I knew Ford's days with me were numbered. I switched and I won't go back until Ford steps up with a tougher driveline and the 6.4L gets 3-5 years of proven service under it. Then I'll consider a Ford again. I can't take a chance on an unproven new diesel and another glorified Ford car transmission. I like the fact that DC is also offering an Aisin M/D tranny and you can't beat a Cummins.

Good luck with your truck. A 6.4L success story only makes em all better.

 

[jcmseven]

Builder,

Glad to see there still might be hope of pulling you back to the Blue Oval. I can understand your conservatism, but I think after some time on the road it seems Ford has a winner with the 6.4L engine. As you and I know, in its current trim it is conservatively tuned, and capable of much more power. The curve here is tremendous. I agree that the Allison transmission is a nice one, but if I recall, not rated for any more torque than the Torqshift. In fact, in conversations I have had with some aftermarket engineers, they have found the slippage rate rate at higher outputs more of a problem with the Allison than the Torqshift (in previous renditions of both transmissions). That said, it still is a stout transmission and the additional gear is nice to have I am sure. Aside from the transmission and rear axle, areas where I feel GM has an edge, the driveshaft and other frame, braking and suspension components on the Ford are markedly upgraded from earlier models. It is a tank of a truck and much more heavily-made than my 2002 model. I am not trying to get this topic more off target than it already is, but if your original statement about breakage is mainly based off the previous generation of these trucks--which were durable but utilitarian--you may wish to reconsider that notion. There is not much that will break easily on this one. Ford has also proven to be very friendly about routine service, etc. I know in the past we have discussed the longer powertrain warranty on the GM product. While this is true, it seems it would be more-helpful if certain GM dealers honored it. My good friend, a very reputable person and the owner of a new 2500 GMC with the Duramax/Allison combo 365/650 has had four unscheduled service trips, three injector related and one electrical. On each of the engine-related issues, the dealer refused to service his truck under warranty, citing "bad fuel" as the cause for his problem. Intriguingly, we ALWAYS (except when traveling which we have neither done recently) buy our fuel at the same place. My friend negotiated one repair under warranty but has now invested over $2500.00 in repairs on his less than 12K mile truck. His last inquiry was met with the ol' "corporate policy" statement. I heard about this as he slummed his way to his house in the passenger seat of the King Ranch. He is a generally very nice person and I honestly felt badly for him. I do not know if it is the dealer--who has a good reputation--or truly company policy on this item. What I do know is his beautiful black truck has nowhere near 100,000 miles on it (heck, not even Ford's puny 60,000 mile either). Perhaps we will make contact in a year or two and place your order. Truly--all jest aside-- I do understand your point and agree that the conservative route is usually best.

John M

 

[jcmseven]

One more thing...in my previous post my point is not that my friend's truck is not a good one. It has run well aside from this nagging issue which has required more than one dealer trip. Anything can happen to any truck of any brand at any time. My concern is he has been less than pleased with the response he has gotten about service issues on his $50,000+ vehicle. Aside from a ZO6 Corvette and scattered Caddies, I think a fully laden GMC/Chevy diesel pickup is about the most-expensive vehicle sold by the General. I personally think he should have been treated better. I know that Ford had similar problems with the 6.0L, where many times customers were blamed for issues which were design-related. I hope that GM does not fall into the same boat and learned something from Ford here. I have had no issues with my truck to test the theory, but have been told by Ford service folks I know their mandate has been to fix problems and not ask questions. They seem to want these trucks to be successful. This is one aspect where in most--but not all-instances Toyota shines. Toyota has laid its fair share of automotive eggs, but in general they handle things well enough to satisfy their customers and keep them coming back.

John M

 

[Builder]

Since you seem to be concentrating on engines, the 6.4L engine is still largely unproven. The DMAX is totally proven. On another website I belong to, there's a member with a DMAX that makes 1,000 rear wheel HP. No Ford diesel, not a 7.3L, 6L or 6.4L has come close to that.

An Allison 1000 series transmission is a true medium duty 6 speed transmission used in larger medium duty applications (like Ford F-650's)than the Ford torqshift 5 speed transmisson. It also has a manual shift feature not found on the torqshift.

Did you ever ask yourself why Ford uses a very similar Allison transmission in their Ford medium duty trucks, like the F-650, but they don't use their own in-house Torqshift in the F-650? If the Torqshift is so tough, like an Allison, I wonder why they don't use them??????

The 11.5" rear axle in the GM is much stouter than the Ford 10.5" l/s rear. It also locks quicker and stays locked

Now the last time I drove a truck, the main thing that drives it is the engine, transmission and rear axle....... they're the heart & soul of a truck. Nice to have 5 REAL proportional gauges instead of idiot-light gauges to monitor that heart & soul, too. That's where I want my money-in the components that take the abuse whenever the truck is running -not a front axle that rarely sees any service.

IMO, Ford's advantages help a much lower percentage of their owners- like snow plowers, hard core off-roaders, guys who need more front axle. That's where Ford has the edge. I'd say 90% of the guys who own Ford & GM trucks barely ever engage them in 4x4 not to mention plow snow or go hard core off roading. Also you have to realize there's a lot of 4x2 trucks out there making the Ford advantage in the front end even less significant.

Let's face it, most diesel truck 4x4 guys don't even need a truck, not to mention a diesel 4x4. For a lot of guys, it's just a lack of masculinity compensation issue. I really need a diesel 4x4 pickup. I use it to tow and carry lots of tools & lumber for a construction business, not tow a 1,500lb Cub Cadet lawn mower or look cute.

Like you said, we're off topic, so let's just say buy what makes the most sense for you......'nuff said.