what on earth does electricity cost near you?

[LouNY]

One of the power company billing schemes that I really love is that if you have sufficient capacity to provide
most of your power much of the time, but desire an electrical service of sufficient capacity to provide all needed power
if your system goes down. You will be billed as if you used the maximum power every day of that billing cycle.
I had heard of that being applied to a large scale solar system that was not tied back into the grid.
It was the utilities favorite tactic years ago when large facilities were looking at co-generation.

 

[3930dave]

Your response is pretty much spot on as to how solar owners here feel about it.

If I were doing it over again, I would certainly explore that option in detail; in particular whether it would be insurable, whether it was legally possible (many places require grid connections as part of local restrictions on building), and whether an off grid generator would be permitted as backup. The technical side is pretty straightforward these days, thankfully.

All the best,

Peter

Various interests don't want anybody opting-out, so urban environments typically won't allow it.

Potentially the most likely site for off-grid would be an unincorporated rural township - but many people won't or can't (work-wise) live there.

I'd build with fireproofing, flooding etc in mind (not a bad idea in general, but unless you can find a specialty insurer, your probably on your own, risk-wise).

As it's a quantum leap (you're not just leaving the grid behind), and requires people to take on responsibilities usually done by someone else in urban settings, uptake in the genpop is rather low.

For Now.....

Rgds, D.

 

[Skagit]

Various interests don't want anybody opting-out, so urban environments typically won't allow it.

Potentially the most likely site for off-grid would be an unincorporated rural township - but many people won't or can't (work-wise) live there.

I'd build with fireproofing, flooding etc in mind (not a bad idea in general, but unless you can find a specialty insurer, your probably on your own, risk-wise).

As it's a quantum leap (you're not just leaving the grid behind), and requires people to take on responsibilities usually done by someone else in urban settings, uptake in the genpop is rather low.

For Now.....

Rgds, D.

As an off grid person, insurance is a non issue. I've had no problems getting coverage and just switched carriers to save some money actually. The wood stove is far more of a problem with insurance than being off grid is. Now, getting a mortgage is, very difficult, but not impossible either.

 

[ultrarunner]

^^^ Yep, those wood stoves can be a deal breaker and even a gas heater rated free standing stove.

I’m grid tied and nothing came up about solar but the CAT wood stove I used once was a deal breaker almost across the board.

I would like backup
Battery but at this point slim chance… when I looked into it 14 months out is what I was told and they did call about a year later but when I learned the price went up said no thank you.

 

[dfkrug]

I would like backup
Battery but at this point slim chance… when I looked into it 14 months out is what I was told and they did call about a year later but when I learned the price went up said no thank you.

Our new neighbor on 5 acres just got their new Enphase solar system installed and working. 34 LG panels (13KW), with 4 Enphase batteries. $85K total up-front cost. Credits this year from the taxpayer will probably be about $30K, state and federal.

The switch to batteries when the power fails works seamlessly. The owner wants an EV to use more electricity as they now only have a PHEV. House is 3500sf with no shade and new A/C system. The lead time to get this system installed was just a few months.

I like the idea of battery backup (with or without solar panels) but I get no sun in the winter months.

 

[ponytug]

^^^ Yep, those wood stoves can be a deal breaker and even a gas heater rated free standing stove.

I’m grid tied and nothing came up about solar but the CAT wood stove I used once was a deal breaker almost across the board.

I would like backup
Battery but at this point slim chance… when I looked into it 14 months out is what I was told and they did call about a year later but when I learned the price went up said no thank you.

You might check to see if you qualify for the SGIP. It offers several different programs by income, whether you have been affected by 2 or more PSPS events, and are on a well or on a medical baseline program (e.g. CPAP). The highest tier offers $1,000/kWh of battery storage. It varies by installer, and by power utility. (California only)

If your battery is connected to a solar system there is also a Federal Investment Tax Credit of 26% this year, going down to 22% next year, but it is a tax credit, so you have to owe federal taxes for it to be useful.

I had similar issues trying to install a wood stove to replace a fireplace. The insurers required dealer installation and no dealer was willing to drive the extra hour to our place. Catch-22

All the best,

Peter

 

[ponytug]

Our new neighbor on 5 acres just got their new Enphase solar system installed and working. 34 LG panels (13KW), with 4 Enphase batteries. $85K total up-front cost. Credits this year from the taxpayer will probably be about $30K, state and federal.

The switch to batteries when the power fails works seamlessly. The owner wants an EV to use more electricity as they now only have a PHEV. House is 3500sf with no shade and new A/C system. The lead time to get this system installed was just a few months.

I like the idea of battery backup (with or without solar panels) but I get no sun in the winter months.

We get very little sun November through February here, and we still had a less than 5 year ROI on solar. Since at the moment PG&E lets you bank energy generated in the summertime for use during the winter, it might work for you as well.

Try PVWatts for an estimate on how much solar you can put in. I know someone who just put in a big solar system and 5 Tesla Powerwalls in your area.

All the best,

Peter

 

[dfkrug]

We get very little sun November through February here, and we still had a less than 5 year ROI on solar. Since at the moment PG&E lets you bank energy generated in the summertime for use during the winter, it might work for you as well.

Try PVWatts for an estimate on how much solar you can put in. I know someone who just put in a big solar system and 5 Tesla Powerwalls in your area.

All the best,

Peter

I use 12KWh per day, year-round, for the past 20y. No A/C, since I have all-concrete house that stays cool. I do like the idea of a Li-ion backup battery, even if I don't have any panels.

Tesla did not even bid the neighbor's project. Not sure why, but others in our area have complained that Tesla quotes one #, then the project costs 50% more. Also, if you get their batteries, you must get their panels.

What is your electric use per day? Even with lower panel costs and subsidies, it is interesting you can make it work economically.

 

[3930dave]

As an off grid person, insurance is a non issue. I've had no problems getting coverage and just switched carriers to save some money actually. The wood stove is far more of a problem with insurance than being off grid is. Now, getting a mortgage is, very difficult, but not impossible either.

I think the snag with closer to urban environments (but potentially anywhere other than unincorporated) is occupancy permit - if the zoning requires grid-connect for Occupancy, then I can see where insurance may get more complicated or unavailable.

(Not saying I'm questioning your experience , and American insurance companies may be more competitive and customer-friendly than some up here).

Needing high heat capability here, but also for the insurance issues touched on, my inclination would be an outdoor wood boiler - not possible in some jurisdictions, even if non-urban.

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

^^^ Yep, those wood stoves can be a deal breaker and even a gas heater rated free standing stove.

I’m grid tied and nothing came up about solar but the CAT wood stove I used once was a deal breaker almost across the board.

I would like backup
Battery but at this point slim chance… when I looked into it 14 months out is what I was told and they did call about a year later but when I learned the price went up said no thank you.

Takes time and luck, but keep feelers out amongst your industrial/commercial suppliers (if you haven't already.....) on the battery front.

Occasionally, things don't work out with batteries that are special-ordered. One guy I talked with years back found some brand-new large industrial batteries that were rejected by the Utility on some minor spec variance (case size ?) at a battery distributor - paid more than scrap value, but got a great deal compared to list. Today's material markets are pretty out of whack, but persistence and luck may turn up something for you.

If you have the physical space to play with, consider (run the #'s) traditional battery chemistries for backup. Lithium gives you energy density, but high Ah Li batteries are spendy, and all Li requires a very sophisticated charge controller. Meaning - while it's not a good idea to OverCharge/Discharge any battery chemistry, Li is one of the most dangerous ones (in common use) under these conditions.

Rgds, D.