what on earth does electricity cost near you?

[ultrarunner]

Some are on paper because of house prices but last time it was high the collapse followed...

 

[3930dave]

At current 40 cents a kWh delivered 5 kWh is $2.00

With gas at $6 a gallon but more like 6.50 a gallon plus going to get it no way my Honda 5000 comes close to utility power and that's not counting the cost of generator or maintaining it.

No Free Lunch.... or fuel, for that matter.....

Friend of a Friend, has gone a very long way down the waste-oil route with old diesels (centrifuge out of a submarine, yadayada....) and done well with it. You and a slice of the TBN crowd have the skills to perhaps pull off the same ur, but basically our group registers close to zero in the gen-pop today.... Even ignoring legislation issues, you still have to carve out the time/space/equipment/practices to pull this off.

That ^ said, that guy's setup is looking really sweet, Today...

A buddy of mine is a trusted contractor, for a collection of high-rise condo towers in Toronto. He was asked for advice, so directed the manager to graph out the kwh over time, vs. total $ billed. Tech folk do this instinctively, but not everybody does......

immediately obvious, then: what I call the fairy-tale fees had taken over the bill, and the manager finally got that Yes, the $ you've spent on Energy Reduction had Results, but all that's done is slightly soften/roll-off the steeply rising Total Monthly Bill.

So..... that ^ manager is now taking a serious look at doing a Co-Gen station for the whole complex.

Monetizing Energy, in whatever form, is a Big game.....

Rgds, D.

 

[ultrarunner]

So true and "Slightly Soften" sounds about right.

Government paid through tax credits to install wood stoves and now through grants paying to remove them...

With the baby on new wood and gas the die has been cast going electric.

Those 1922 power poles in the neighborhood keep soldiering on.

I'm glad about 20 years ago the underground gas lines upgraded... as they were 80 years old at the time... in 2020 the sewer also replaced.

PV is more than kW... it's also satisfaction from what I see with a zest to see yesterday's output.

With peak pricing now later in the day I have though about re-orienting the arrays for late afternoon sun instead of midday sun.

My panels are ground mounted so rather simple.

 

[dfkrug]

At this point, I would consider the Enphase batteries as well. Unlike say buying a new phone, I think that adding batteries is not a trivial investment, and it is attached to your home with the possibility of electrical and fire issues. One downside to Tesla batteries is that they don't play well with generators. I would bet that makes the Enphase batteries a much better choice for your location

I had not heard that about Tesla's lack of generator back-up capability. I talked to the Enphase installer while the above installation was happening, and he showed me how to integrate a generator into one of the new panels they installed.

A generator is critical here in the mountains, but a battery b/u sounds very intriguing for someone like me, who uses even less power during an outage. If i can run a refer and a few lights for 2-3 days, that would be great.

I just got some more gasoline and red diesel yesterday (5.96/gal for 87 octane E10 gas, and 6.40/gal for red no-tax diesel).

Since you are about 20 KWh/day, with PHEV, I suspect your house usage is nearly as low as mine. I do have electric water heater, plus 240V well pump, plus 240V septic pump, all of which can be off for 2-3 days.

 

[ponytug]

Tesla plans on a scenario where solar charges the Powerwalls and the generator runs the house using a transfer switch but they have a short, short list of generators that are acceptable to charge powerwalls for off grid usage. (Koehler RESA, Kubota GL, and Himoinsa, but the list is old and no longer even on Tesla's website.

Generac and Enphase seem to have embraced ICE generators more strongly.

All the best,

Peter

 

[dmccarty]

Tesla plans on a scenario where solar charges the Powerwalls and the generator runs the house using a transfer switch but they have a short, short list of generators that are acceptable to charge powerwalls for off grid usage. (Koehler RESA, Kubota GL, and Himoinsa, but the list is old and no longer even on Tesla's website.
...

When I looked at PowerWalls years ago I was shocked that they did not support generators. Glad to see they are doing something in that regards today.

As a comparison to PowerWall type battery systems, take a look at https://www.victronenergy.com/ and https://www.victronenergy.com, which provide batteries, chargers, inverters, etc, that are extensively use in the boat and RV market. Boats in particular can have a variety of battery charging sources from wind, solar panels, alternators, generators and even towed power generators.

Later,
Dan

 

[3930dave]

Some historically recent Canadian data....

https://www.cdhowe.org/sites/default/files/2021-12/Commentary 582.pdf

Some light Sunday morning reading ^ if so inclined... otherwise, conclusion below:

"
5 4
PA RT V I
Conclusion
This paper has provided a comparison of the costs
of electricity across provinces – for provincial
systems overall, as well as for representative
profiles across residential, commercial, industrial
and farm consumers. The analysis showed the
significant variation in normalized system costs
overall – from an estimated $70/MWh in Quebec
and Newfoundland & Labrador to $143/MWh in
Ontario for the 2018 year.
The analysis of components of systems’ costs and
consumers’ rates revealed that growth in Alberta’s
system costs and consumer rates was primarily
driven by increases in transmission and distribution
costs while heightened energy costs (through the
growing Global Adjustment) drove increased costs
in Ontario.
A comparison of average unit electricity costs
exhibited that transmission-connected industrial
consumers face the lowest costs in most provinces.
The exception is Ontario where generous taxpayer-
funded rebates have reduced costs for residential
and small commercial consumers.
The analysis also broke down the proportion
of each consumer classes’ electricity costs across
energy, variable, fixed and demand charges. This
exhibited the degree to which these components
contribute to cost differences between provinces.
For example, Ontario’s large commercial and
distribution-connected industrial consumers face
higher electricity costs than in any other province,
and Ontario’s outsized costs for these consumers
in turn result from energy costs that exceed those
in all other provinces. As well, compared with
other provinces, Ontario residential consumers face
relatively low electricity costs as a result of taxpayer-
funded rebates.
Finally, this paper has highlighted policy
considerations around electricity rates – specifically,
the alignment of consumer prices with marginal
costs, the efficient allocation of fixed costs, and
the competitive implications of inter-provincial
differences in the costs of electricity."

I respect CD Howe, but as I'm not paid by the word/graph, I would have said:

A) Use Hydro-Electric.

B) Business and Industry need low-cost electricity to be competitive.

^ Two things that my Dad knew, as a young man.....

Rgds, D.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

TVA is our base source and is about 12 cents per kWh from our utility RECC. 60 years ago it was under 1 cent I remember with monthly bill of about $10.

I never paid any attention to rates until I transitioned from fossil fuel to electric for the daily driver which currently runs 3.5 cents per mile driven. Now when I run the AC for 4 hours making a 30 mile trip the cost per mile increases as does our comfort in triple digit temps. The electric heat pump for heat and AC drove my selection of our Leafs trim package. Heat or cooling starts in 20 seconds which is awesome on a 20F morning on a 20 mile trip.

Recovering from the 10 Dec 2021 tornado is impacting rates. While we have 2 nearby hydro dams the jump in coal and natural gas costs are certain to increase our rates. Looking forward to the coming huge SS COLA.

In 1990 we tore out the flue and went all electric since that is the only energy source on our road. It has taken 30 years to validate my decision.

 

[ultrarunner]

Im thinking how a person views going electric and electric cars depends on large part the kWh cost in their area

I know I would see things differently if I was paying 10-12 cents vs. 34-41 cents...

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Im thinking how a person views going electric and electric cars depends on large part the kWh cost in their area

I know I would see things differently if I was paying 10-12 cents vs. 34-41 cents...

I think that could be a factor with some people. In my case my main criteria was that it had a heat pump. That was before Tesla had the heat pump as an option that came out on the model Y I think.