Recently purchased an old Miller Thunderbolt 225 AC/DC welder. No ground clamp or electrode holder came with the unit. So what diameter cable should I get? (#4 or #2) It will be used mostly for light fabrication/general repairs. Twenty five feet of cable should be enough for my needs.
What size welding cable?
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shaley
Platinum Member
See Chart at bottom of page.
#4 should do it.
#4 should do it.
George2615
Super Member
I'd get 1/0 cable. Can't hurt to be bigger cable. That's what I use on my Miller Bobcat 250NT
Farmerford
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The table is for one way distance. Harvester is 25' one way, and the table does not go below 50' one way. Considering voltage drop alone, Shaley is probably right that #4 will work. But #4 is not rated for over 150 continuous amps at 30 deg C ambient (88 deg F) because of its 105 deg C (221 deg F) insulation. So, on a hot day, in the sun, with the welder running regularly over 150 amps, the copper cable could get hot enough to melt the insulation. Of course, the duty cycle at 150 amps is probably 50% or less, and 150 amps is plenty for most light farm fabrication. So that combination is very unlikely.
I would probably get #2, but #4 is not likely to give trouble.
I would probably get #2, but #4 is not likely to give trouble.
sandman2234
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I put #1 on my 225 welder, and had a lot of problems getting it installed. I wanted to be able to use the lead on another welder if I had to, which was the reason for the larger size.
My buzzbox came with about 25 foot of lead, and I went with 60 foot on the stinger and 40 on the ground. I figured I could clamp the ground to a piece of angle iron and tack it to what ever I was working on if I didn't have enough ground. Kind of hard to improvise on the stinger side. Some projects are longer than 25 foot, much less the distance to them, and a couple feet for elbow room. Buy more than you figure you will need, cause your going to need it.
David from jax
My buzzbox came with about 25 foot of lead, and I went with 60 foot on the stinger and 40 on the ground. I figured I could clamp the ground to a piece of angle iron and tack it to what ever I was working on if I didn't have enough ground. Kind of hard to improvise on the stinger side. Some projects are longer than 25 foot, much less the distance to them, and a couple feet for elbow room. Buy more than you figure you will need, cause your going to need it.
David from jax
Sandlot
Gold Member
At work we use 1/0 to get from the machine to the job. We make up shorter whips (15') out of 4 or 6 to attach our stingers to. Makes way less weight to hold up while welding in any position.
patrick_g
Elite Member
Don't waste time and money making a cable just barely long enough to reach and or just barely heavy enough to carry the current. It is way better to err on the side of extra length and wire size. You can also use aluminum welding cables, sometimes cheaper. They will be larger in diameter for the same current but not heavier.
Having at least a 10 ft or longer "whip" on the end of the stinger run is a nice to have. Toss in a few bucks extra and get the EXTRA FLEXIBLE wire for the whip and not have to downsize it too much to get flexibility.
Buy good wire with good "flexible when cold" insulation (ESPECIALLY THE WHIP) and you will thank yourself if you have to weld in the cold.
If you get good wire and don't abuse the dickens out of it you will get decades of use out of it. Harsh use is things like having a grass fire start from sparks but go unnoticed because you don't have an auto-dimming helmet until after you ruin the insulation. That or dropping an excavator bucket (4 ft wide) on a track hoe on it and on and on.
Pat
Having at least a 10 ft or longer "whip" on the end of the stinger run is a nice to have. Toss in a few bucks extra and get the EXTRA FLEXIBLE wire for the whip and not have to downsize it too much to get flexibility.
Buy good wire with good "flexible when cold" insulation (ESPECIALLY THE WHIP) and you will thank yourself if you have to weld in the cold.
If you get good wire and don't abuse the dickens out of it you will get decades of use out of it. Harsh use is things like having a grass fire start from sparks but go unnoticed because you don't have an auto-dimming helmet until after you ruin the insulation. That or dropping an excavator bucket (4 ft wide) on a track hoe on it and on and on.
Pat
Egon
Epic Contributor
Usually "Real Good" welding cables have a tendency to grow legs if they get abused in any way. 
MikesTractor
Silver Member
One of my best friends works in a local welding shop. Their insurance company makes them change out the welding leads when they get any kind of damage to them. When they change them out, they sell them at scrap price to employees if they want them.
A few months back, my buddy brought me 150 feet of #1 cable. This cable came off one of their welding trucks with a portable welder. There were a few small nicks in the cover but nothing major. Nothing that would bother me, anyway.
I just bought a new welder recently. It came with a 15 ft. #4 electrode cable and a 10 foot #4 ground cable. I cut the 150 feet of #1 in half, hooked these two to the welder and then hooked the smaller new leads to them.
My welder sits beside one of my shop doors. With the cables hooked together this way, I can reach anywhere inside my shop, and half way across the shop lot outside. Makes for easy repairs if I can't get something inside the shop.
Mike
A few months back, my buddy brought me 150 feet of #1 cable. This cable came off one of their welding trucks with a portable welder. There were a few small nicks in the cover but nothing major. Nothing that would bother me, anyway.
I just bought a new welder recently. It came with a 15 ft. #4 electrode cable and a 10 foot #4 ground cable. I cut the 150 feet of #1 in half, hooked these two to the welder and then hooked the smaller new leads to them.
My welder sits beside one of my shop doors. With the cables hooked together this way, I can reach anywhere inside my shop, and half way across the shop lot outside. Makes for easy repairs if I can't get something inside the shop.
Mike
patrick_g
Elite Member
Mike, What a deal! Lucky you! Nicks in the insulation are easy to fix so they don't propagate cracks when the cables flex. Get some heat shrink insulation that will slide over the cable and use a heat gun to shrink it. It makes a pretty waterproof repair and prevents cracks from forming/propagating in the damaged areas.
I don't have nice long leads like you so I bought a used industrial extension cord that will easily supply 50 amps at 100 feet. I cut it into two pieces, one about 33+ feet and the other 66+ and put HD 250 volt male and female connectors on the pieces. I can run my Lincoln tombstone on either piece or both together. I have mounted the buzz box to an old dolly I upgraded with larger wheels so I can take the welding machine to the work and use the stock leads. The extension cords are way lighter than equal length HD welding leads and I have the welding controls right there near the work instead of way off somewhere else.
Still I need to get some longer leads as some projects are too big to reach without moving the equipment cart around.
Pat
I don't have nice long leads like you so I bought a used industrial extension cord that will easily supply 50 amps at 100 feet. I cut it into two pieces, one about 33+ feet and the other 66+ and put HD 250 volt male and female connectors on the pieces. I can run my Lincoln tombstone on either piece or both together. I have mounted the buzz box to an old dolly I upgraded with larger wheels so I can take the welding machine to the work and use the stock leads. The extension cords are way lighter than equal length HD welding leads and I have the welding controls right there near the work instead of way off somewhere else.
Still I need to get some longer leads as some projects are too big to reach without moving the equipment cart around.
Pat
MikesTractor
Silver Member
Pat
I know, it was a great deal. I tried to pay him for the cable, but he kept bringing up the times that I've done little things on his tractors and not charged him for them.
I've already taken care of the nicks, as you said, shrink wrap did the trick. If my buddy hadn't come up with the cable, I wouldn't have cables this long. I would probably have done something similar to what you did. Since I put the longer cables on my welder, I probably haven't pulled off more than 25 or 30 feet, but it's nice to know it's there if you need it.
My welder isn't on wheels, I put it up on a stand about 2 feet off the floor. It makes the controls a little easier to get to.
I'm in the process of building a cart for my wire welder with larger tires so it will roll across the shop lot (read gravel). The tires are salvaged from an old lawn mower. I'll post some pics of the cart soon.
Mike
I know, it was a great deal. I tried to pay him for the cable, but he kept bringing up the times that I've done little things on his tractors and not charged him for them.
I've already taken care of the nicks, as you said, shrink wrap did the trick. If my buddy hadn't come up with the cable, I wouldn't have cables this long. I would probably have done something similar to what you did. Since I put the longer cables on my welder, I probably haven't pulled off more than 25 or 30 feet, but it's nice to know it's there if you need it.
My welder isn't on wheels, I put it up on a stand about 2 feet off the floor. It makes the controls a little easier to get to.
I'm in the process of building a cart for my wire welder with larger tires so it will roll across the shop lot (read gravel). The tires are salvaged from an old lawn mower. I'll post some pics of the cart soon.
Mike
patrick_g
Elite Member
Mike, A note of caution... Welding cables get hot when amped up heavily. Coiling up the excess length concentrates the heat and will potentially melt the insulation at a much much lower amperage than would be required for cables not coiled up. Now if the air flow from your machines fan just happens to blow across the coiled up leads then lucky you, they won't overheat so easily.
Pat
Pat
MikesTractor
Silver Member
Pat,
Thanks for the tip. I never really thought about the heat in the cables. I haven't really done any serious welding with the new welder, just played with it a little when I first got it. I'll make sure to watch out for the heat.
Mike
Thanks for the tip. I never really thought about the heat in the cables. I haven't really done any serious welding with the new welder, just played with it a little when I first got it. I'll make sure to watch out for the heat.
Mike
sandman2234
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I have a bunch of 2/0 welding lead that is too big for me to use, unless I use a smaller stinger lead on the end of it. If the price of scrap copper keeps going up it may get sold.
David from jax
David from jax
patrick_g
Elite Member
MikesTractor said:
Mike, Given the cross section of the cables, unless it is hot weather and or you weld at high power for a long time you may not experience a problem.
Same story for long extension cords wound up on the convenient reels. If used near maximum power levels while wrapped up they can overheat, especially on a hot day.
The insulation is OK for max power when the cables are NOT ROLLED UP and the ambient temp specs are not surpassed.
Pat
