Which revolver/pistol?

[Ozarker]

<font color=blue>You just never know when you might be suddenly attacked without warning by dope crazed Morrow indians.</font color=blue>

Have you been downtown St Louis or Kansas City on a Friday night lately? /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif More that Morrows get dope crazed.

<font color=blue>But seriously, if bigger is better why not a .50 BMG autoloading pistol?</font color=blue>

When I say bigger, I don't mean more powerful. I mean make a big hole, let out a lot of blood. And I believe you are correct. There is a point of diminishing return once you get above the .45 ACP. I wouldn't use a .44mag but would use a .44 special, if that is what I had available. The magnums create too much muzzle climb to be useful on multiple targets and suffer from too much penetration. Even if using a .44mag hollow point or soft point, it will often passes through a human body before it even begins to expand. Energy going out the back is wasted energy.

The lower speed .40 and .45 will reliably open up and will often stop in the body depositing all it's energy in the body. The result being that the .45 "hits" the target harder than the .44mag and is a better man stopper.

The .44mag is a better Grizzly stopper.

If I remember my ballistics correctly, the theory behind the big switch to the wonder 9's in the 80's was high capacity/high velocity. The plan was that the high velocity round would create a hydrostatic shock in the body to shock the nervous system and stop an assailant. The big switch to the .40 in the 90's was because the other theory turned out to be BS on the streets.

 

[frank_f15]

your right the rugers don't cycle the shot capsules very well. sometimes it do and sometimes it don't. don't really use then alot but the few times i do ,i have noticed this.

 

[cp1969]

"Beware the man with one gun--he probably knows how to use it."

Or something to that effect, I once read in one of Jeff Cooper's columns.

I currently own twelve handguns, and as verification of the quote, am not familiar enough with any of them to hit anything smaller than an elephant beyond point blank range. (I carry none of them.) But have I ever enjoyed each and every one over the years!

I have never known anyone who was disappointed with his K22 Smith. I prefer the old style with skinny barrels as compared to the underlug, but any of them, IMHO, is the top of the line when it comes to .22 revolvers. The .22 autos are fine, but I prefer revolvers. If you can find a Colt Woodsman or an old High Standard (Victor, Supermatic, etc.), grab it. The Rugers are OK (I have a .22/45; it shoots great) but don't compare in terms of fit, finish, and feel to the High Standards or Colt Woodsman.

I have an overall preference for revolvers and a specific preference for S&W DA revolvers, so if I had to get down to one it would probably be the 4" M29. However, I've got a 5 1/2" Ruger Blackhawk in .45 LC that would work just as well and is a bit lighter, too.

 

[chim]

Knucklehead, the 1911 has always impressed me. How many other things have been around for nearly 100 years and are still quite serviceable? The Springfields at one time had awful triggers from the factory, but the past few years have improved greatly. I remember the first one I bought had a trigger pull that was so hard it made your trigger finger sore after an extended range session. The Compact Lightweight I referenced earlier was a whole different story. The trigger was light and crisp right out of the box. It took me a couple phone calls to refinishing outfits and quite a few evenings of planning and convincing myself before taking the tools to the sharp edges on the nice new blued pistol. Glad I did though. Have a look at the "Loaded" Springfields. The one thing that they still have is some illegal alien at the end of the assembly line sharpening all the edges. Other than that, they're very good.

Never had a Para, so can't comment on them.

Only ever had one Colt 1911 - a Gold Cup that never ran right. Swapped it even up for an Anaconda when they first came out. Good riddance.

Kimbers have been as good as everyone says. A couple nights ago I went to the range to get some time w/ a .22 target pistol and took my Gold Match along. It wears an Optima 2000, and you wouldn't believe the groups.

They don't need to be expensive to shoot well. A good example is a Norinco I picked up used for $229 about a year ago. It's ugly. There are machine marks all over it. But the darn thing really shoots. Never hiccuped.

Most of the shooting I do is target, and I load 200 gr. lead SWC's on a Dillon 550. Reliability has been near 100% with all the 1911's I've had except for the one Colt.

A plus for the 1911 (and a few others) is the availability of conversion kits to enable you to use .22LR ammo. Some are kinda "iffy", but the Marvel unit I have will do under 1" at 50 yards from a rest with Winchester Dynapoints and CCI Standard Velocity.

It wasn't too many years ago I had no interest in 1911's, now I'd hate to be without one (or more).................chim

 

[Ozarker]

I absolutely love my US issue Supermatic. Bought it on an on-line auction back in August.

 

[patrickg]

Ozarker, You're right again, in general. Typical .44 mag rounds are not "formulated" for people. There are notable exceptions. Griz, Mack trucks, busses, and other "hard" targets require tremendous penetration and the .44 mag and up do that but projectiles designed specifically to break up on impact and transfer their energy to the target are very effective in .44 mag. Of course that is probably "overkill" and not needed as the .45 is quite effective. I have read articles on homebrew flechettes for the .44 mag and have tried them. Awesome destructive power in the higher loadings at short to moderate ranges. For me personally, if I wasn't content with a .45ACP for things jumping up at me in the woods/brush/tall grass I would consider some hot .44 mag handloaded flechette rounds in the first 2-4 chambers andthe rest with high vel semi-jacketed hollowpoints or softnose to finish filling the cylinder to 5. As my Ruger Super Blackhawk is an oldie I don't carry it on a loaded chamber. Full cylinder is fine for target shooting but not when that cannon is strapped to my anatomy.

A buddy of mine claimed it went off "accidently" when he was removing it from a holster in a drawer at our place of business where he was spending the night preperatory to our getting the electronic alarm going. I have always believed that story was pure BS since it is a single action revolver but it gave me an object lesson in .44 mag ballistics. My handload went through the plaster, through the 2x4 (full cut not milled) on edge, through the second layer of plaster,crossed the room next door, hit an electical conduit (crushing it) dented two sides of a commercial range hood and then fell to the floor. It nearly scared the daylights out of the aunt of the owner of the resturant next door who was in early cooking beans for that days operation (Mexican food place). Needless to say when I moved off my sailboat into a house in a residential neighborhood, I put the hand cannon away in favor of the .45ACP to limit the probability of colateral dammage.


Patrick

 

[Ozarker]

Home brew flechettes.......hummmmmmmmmmmmmm Sounds fun.

Hey. That .44 story reminded me of a similar story. Didn't happen to me but at Ft Leonard Wood there are quarters available for soldiers arriving who haven't arranged for housing yet. Sort of like a motel, but better. Anyway, one morning there was a call for an ambulance there. Seems the soldier had his .44 loaded and in the closet. He claims that his young son got it and pulled the trigger. Bullet hit the tiled concrete floor, did a low arch across the floor, through the cinder block wall and through the soldiers foot.

It was a good story but what I think really happened was that the soldier was playing with his gun and shot himself in the foot. But it did make a nice hole in the cinder block wall.

 

[cp1969]

The 1911's are OK, but the factory sights are almost worthless.

If your Gold Cup was not feeding right, chances are a little polishing of the feed ramp, or at worst, a replacement barrel would have fixed. The two 1911's I had never hiccuped on anything I've ever fed them--they just chunk 'em out, one after another, magazine after magazine, regardless of whether the magazine is a factory Colt or a $2.00 gun show special. Maybe I've been lucky.

If I have a gripe about the 1911's, it would be that the more you shoot, you tend to want to shoot at things that are further and further away, and the combination of gun and cartridge limit this range far more than on, say, a high-front sight, short-barreled revolver. Aftermarket sights help somewhat, but the width of the slide tends to block out the target at any range which requires much elevation. It can still be shot at long range, but you end up aiming at something other than the target whereas you can raise the front sight above the rear and leave the target sitting on top of the front sight on most DA revolvers. This is getting picky, though, as that is most definitely NOT what this gun and cartridge was designed to do. It is first and foremost a combat weapon, but since I don't shoot people, I tend to try to shoot stumps, rocks, and the like at 400 yards. The .45 ACP and 1911 is not very well suited to this, but that is my fault because it was never intended to do that. However, a 4" M29 with a 250 SWC at 1250 fps is more than up to the task. It may take a couple of rounds to walk it onto the target, but once you get things bracketed, you can lay them in there pretty regularly. For those who haven't tried long range pistol shooting, I encourage you to try. Some of the most fun shooting we used to do was at a 55 gallon drum at about 600 yards. You can sometimes see the bullets in flight(Seriously!!! You need to have the sun at your back to do it, and KEEP YOUR EYES OPEN) and can tell almost as soon as the bullet leaves the barrel whether it's going to hit or miss.

 

[roysallis]

Smith&Wesson Model 629 Classic - 44Mag or Model 686 - 357 Mag. Stainless steel.

 

[knucklehead]

Wow! I knew there was a lot of firearms experience out here, just from the responses I've read in other places. Thanks for the .45 info - Phil, Randy, Jim, Pat, & Charles. We've got a great dealer a mile away who does a lot of police/fire/rescue business, and is a hunter himself (sold my son his Mossberg Turkey gun when he traded up to a Beretta). I think if this .45 bug continues, we'll put ourselves in his hands - as I've said, we've read so much about classic 1911's and other .45's, we're getting overloaded. But I wanted to hear some real experiences, and I got a lot!

Thanks again - we're leaning toward Paras or Springfields, unless a Colt makes itself available for the right $$. I'll ask about the Tanfoglio's & Griffins, too. We're not afraid to step in a different direction, if the quality is there.