Who Should Pay?

[YanmarFever]

Option: 4 NEVER, EVER loan your tractor to anyone for any reason.
If you have a hole in your head and do, ANYTHING that happens is on you.

When I was in the tractor repair business most damage was done by neighbors, friends, brother in laws,ect...
Burnt clutches, broken axles, ring & pinion gears, we saw it all, but the the tractor owner always paid the bill and learned the hard way not to lend their machine out.

 

[YanmarFever]

Back in the 80s my lovely wife and I bought a boat ( I know better now)
My sister was going on vacation and asked if they could borrow it. (I should of said NO) But since she was a real sweet person I gave in.
When the boat was returned 2 weeks later, the engine was shot, the throttle lever was ripped from the metal mount and laying on the seat, the top was crumpled up to basketball size and their dog wissed on it, + there were 2 holes on the bottom not to mention the scrapes, and the carpet looked 20 yrs older.
It turns out her 2 kids and friends got a hold of the boat and went for joy rides and played chicken.
When the boat was returned I was not at home, but when I saw it I was STEAMED to say the least. However, not to cause a family rift, I never said a word about it to others for years (still haven't)
Also my sis did not have the $$ to repair it.
Well it turns out that my stepfather found out about because when he passed away he left me his beautiful pontoon boat in his will. How he found it is beyond me.

The lesson I learned is not to lend equipment out.
When someone wanted to borrow a tractor I would tell them to rent one.

 

[Bavarian]

My opinion, if somebody provides help, like moving as an example, the food and the immediate expenses like fuel is on me. If their vehicle breaks down, it would have anyways. To provide financial aid might depend on the situation.

A few years back, we got a new neighbor. A former mechanic at a JD dealer and he just sold his farm. He asked to borrow our tractor for different tasks and I agreed. He seemed trustworthy. One day I came home from work and needed the tractor. When I put my foot on the lower step it felt awkward. Sure it was bent. A few days later, when I opened the hood, I figured the screen in the hood was damaged. He cleaned up his yard, removed a lots of dead trees, piled them up and burned them.
That good relationship went south due to some other things and those damages were brought up. "I didn't notice" was his reply.

With another neighbor, we got an agreement. They bought a used tiller, I provided the tractor and manpower to till on their property. In return, I can use the tiller anytime at our place when I need it. Last time I used it at our place, it broke. Now I buy that broken tiller for the price they bought it. It wasn't used much in between.

Same property, last winter, my wife was asked to push back a few snowbanks. Sure enough, she didn't pay attention and ran with the open grapple into the powerline and took it down. $300 and a few later on our expense, they had heat the same day again.

There is a new tenant not too far away from us. They just moved in. They are looking for somebody to clear their driveway. We've been contacted as well. But you sure know my answer.

I'm sorry, but I had the shorter end too many times.

 

[Industrial Toys]

A friend once parked his Vett here outside over the winter. Not a really expensive vehicle. One of those, in the process of being fixed up, never finished, then sold ones. anyway, I touched it with the snowblower. Hey, I was new at it! The car had been repainted and I did mess that up. I did not offer to pay for damages. Maybe I should have. The car was parked here for free, but I was negligent, nevertheless. Sometimes it's hard to pry open ones wallet and do the right thing. Harder, when the circumstances are the least bit murky.

Wonder what Judge judy would say.

 

[ovrszd]

That makes total sense, if your contacting work. If I hire someone to paint my house, should I pay for a broken ladder? No. But then again, we signed a contract for services at a set price. Doing a favor for a friend of neighbor, I'm not about to whip out a contract and make him sign it. We do the work, if he wants to compensate me for time, materials, fuel, etc ok. I wont argue unless he is trying to pay me some crazy high number. However, where I live, we are all very friendly and help one another, share resources, etc.
This particular neighbor is a machinist. A very good neighbor to have! He has done TONS of work for me, for free. It's what we all do in my neighborhood, exchange favors and barter. However, we do understand that there is a dollar amount costs involved with these projects.
He feels guilty about having me come over on my day off work and preform work using my tools that I broke on his project. He offers to pay.
I feel guilty because its my tractor and I broke it. We agreed to each pay for half of the repairs.

The only reason I bring this to the masses is because I had a conversation about this with the wife. She opts for option 2, I pay. Her father (who was over) said option 1, he pays. So we had a 'discussion' about it. I already agreed to pay half, so it was not an argument, simply a discussion I though would be interesting to see how others would see it.

When you said above that he has done TONS of work for you free, that clenched it.

Fix your tractor. Politely show gratitude for his offering to share the cost. Apologize to him for considering his offer to pay. Remind him of the TONS of things he has done for you.

If I valued this neighbor I would be ashamed of myself. I'd be eagerly looking for the next opportunity to help him.

 

[ovrszd]

Well, the issue is, he asked you to come over and do work unpaid, as a favor. There is not fault. And as a favor back to you, he offers to pay for repairs, because he may feel guilty having you come to his property and do work for him and your equipment broke down. Thats how I see it. Well, I see it as 50/50 if I am unpaid and the price of repairs is high. If it was something like a bolt or hose, then yeah, I would totally pay for it all 100%.

There is a bigger picture here than I think many people are not seeing. The relationship you have with your friends and neighbors, that span decades. Favors exchanged, beers bought for one another, your neighbor sleeping on your couch because his wife kicked him out type of thing. It's not just some random dude you met once that asked you to work for him unpaid. If that were the case, this wouldn't be an issue (it's not really an issue but more of a thought exercise), it would be contracted over a handshake and an agreed upon amount for the task. It's like your best friend calls you because he needs your help moving a couch. Are you going to charge him? I hope not!! But what happens if you throw out your back helping him? Hopefully you have insurance or its not that bad to see a doctor, but if you had to pay out of your pocket, for helping your best friend with a favor that is different. If I were the friend, I'd feel so guilty that I would insist on paying!
It kinda seems like people don't do favors for one another, least not without a contract or prearranged negotiations on what happens if a meteor falls on your equipment. I actually do contract work with my tractor for others. They are NOT friends, but more like acquaintances. They call me and ask to use me and my tractor for whatever and to 'name my price.' I throw out a fair and agreed upon number and time frame then get to work. That situation is different. When someone who routinely does favors for me ask that I do a favor for him, there is no negotiation on price. You just get to work. And if something breaks, he helps fix it, especially if he is right there working along side me. I actually felt kinda guilty because he was doing manual labor and I was driving the tractor!
It is not so cut and dried. Granted, I do believe that ultimately I am responsible for my tractor. And that is why we agreed to each pay half. He felt guilty, but its my tractor that I was operating. We went back and fourth for a while, while drinking a delicious beer, figuring out what went wrong and best way to fix it.

I am fully prepared to pay for any damages I cause to my equipment wherever it happens. But sometimes, maybe you should look at the total picture, take your friend up on his offer to pay, and get the job done.

There's nothing in this lengthy statement that I agree with. You actually put a price tag on friendship.

 

[ovrszd]

Yep.

I spoke to my neighbor last night about this thread. Showed him actually. He was impressed, and discouraged at the same time. He is still under the belief that if something breaks of mine while I am doing something for him, then he is responsible. This is why we decided to split it, but didnt have too (warranty). I feel responsible because its my equipment, he feels responsible because its his project and I 'dropped everything to help him when he asked.' These are good neighbors. The ones who dont expect repayment or damages for favors. Favors are paid for by favors in return. That's just the way it is.

You gotta decide where you stand here. You've jumped the fence several times.

 

[Avenger]

ovrsizd, I thought about replying to each of your comments. But I cannot, only because there is nothing in your statements that I agree with.

That said, this is the entire reason for this thread. To have a conversation on opposing opinions. I havent "jumped the fence" at all. This entire thing was settled way before I made the first post. I was just curious about what others thought. Since I can clearly see both sides of this thing.
Price on friendship, nope. Not at all. And yes, he as done much for me in the past, for free. And I have done much for him, in the past, for free. All of my neighbors and friends have.

 

[HarryVanderpool]

When I was in the tractor repair business most damage was done by neighbors, friends, brother in laws,ect...
Burnt clutches, broken axles, ring & pinion gears, we saw it all, but the the tractor owner always paid the bill and learned the hard way not to lend their machine out.

Speaking of learning the hard way:
Who's going to pay if the borrower gets seriously hurt or killed?
Once the insurance companies get involved, it is out of your friendly neighbor's hands.
It's not like you're loaning out a fishing pole....

 

[ovrszd]

ovrsizd, I thought about replying to each of your comments. But I cannot, only because there is nothing in your statements that I agree with.

That said, this is the entire reason for this thread. To have a conversation on opposing opinions. I havent "jumped the fence" at all. This entire thing was settled way before I made the first post. I was just curious about what others thought. Since I can clearly see both sides of this thing.
Price on friendship, nope. Not at all. And yes, he as done much for me in the past, for free. And I have done much for him, in the past, for free. All of my neighbors and friends have.

Can only go by your comments. Appears you may be a fair weather neighbor.