Why bombs are armed on the flight line

[Soundguy]

Podunk, by the way.. just noticed your tag line.. totally agree bud!

soundguy

 

[gemini5362]

Gemini,
I'm glad to know there's another out in TBN land that knows a little something-something about the best gun system ever devised! Awesome. Sounds like you know your stuff too. I had forgotten all about the fact that the ship has to turn off all RADAR when unjamming a gun. I can't remember (it's been a long, long time), but it seems that we only had to do that with HEI rounds that were jamming the gun system. I just can't remember now. I do remember that we had to send formal requests up through the chain of command that went all the way up to the skipper of the carrier for us to be able to work on the gun. Seems they didn't like being "blind" either , go figure. We'd have small windows of opportunity to get it fixed, or either we had to wait until the next night. (Seems that our HERO work always happened at night). I can neither confirm nor deny though that we've had a gun apart up on the bow of the boat, at night, when the RADAR was still running. Talk about trouble if one had cooked off. I don't even want to think of it. Man, I had forgotten all about that. But, for all those that don't know, the drum, feed chutes, etc., protect the round from HERO (hazard of electromagnetic radiation to ordnance).

Podunk

v I think that the main reason why you have to secure all radars when working with unlinked ammo in the phalanx is because it is electrically fired ammunition. The worry is that a pulse from a radar might induce enough current to set it off.


If you played with that system on a carrier you must know an awful lot about corrosion control. I went to the General Dynamics factory for 10 weeks to train on the system. While I was there we were wondering around in the factory and ran accross a sytem that had been pulled off of a carrier and brought back for study. It was located under the flight deck and whenever they washed down the flight deck it got covered in salt water. (at least that is what they told us) The system had been on the carrier for only a year. I can safely say it was the worst corroded thing I have ever seen. The electronic plugs on the back of the mount were actually eaten over 50 per cent away from corrosion and the barrels were unbelievable. We saw some of the ideas they were trying to combat the corrosion issue.


Did you just work on the gun or the whole system. I spent a month one time troubleshooting a problem with the tracking system failing its operability test. I checked everything over and over and the only thing I could find was that when you injected a signal into the waveguide and measured the outputs of the hybrid ring they were ten db lower than they were supposed to be. (that was after we finally got the test equipment guys to fix our spectrum analyzer so that it accurately measured at that frequency. ) we knew it could not be the hybrid ring because that is just square tubing basically. I had several conversations with the people at GD about the problem and got into one big arguement with one of the guys talking. I found out later that he was the engineer that had designed the antenna system. Finally I convinced them it was in the antenna and we sent it back to GD to be fixed. They found stuff growing in the waveguide. Evidently the crew had cracked the radome and then went to supply on their own and got a new one without telling anyone. I miss working on that system. It was always broke so you always had a challenge. While I was in school I made the statement that it was very easy to defeat that sytem. That got a lot of attention so they asked me how. I told them it was easy you outfitted a plane with a missile and then made a run on the ship. You fired your missile and one of two things happened either the missile hit the ship and sank it or the system worked and knocked the missile out of the air. If the sytem worked and knocked the missile out of the air then you waited 24 hours and came back the next day and fired a missile and sank the ship, because everyone knew that the system never worked for 24 hours straight. I thought that was hilariously funny. Unfortueatly it was a bit too close to the truth and our instructor did not see the humor. After a couple of years of development they got the bugs worked out so we saw some reliability. But those first couple of years it was nothing to work 80 plus hours a week on it.

 

[gemini5362]

This is an article about the Phalanx on Military News Military History Military PHOTO VIDEO.

Surface Forces : Phalanx Gets Sharp Eyes

The website has interesting information. Much of which will never be seen on the regular media outlets. Sometimes I see stories on the major outlets but it had been on Strategy Page previous. One of the guys on the site has been writing military/history related books for years. I have been reading his stuff for a decade or more.

Anywho the link is about the hardware and software changes to the Phalanx that allows it to shoot down mortars, artillery and rockets. Its been covering the Green Zone in Bagdad for awhile. There has been a later upgrade that allows the Phalanx to take out small fast boats.

Later,
Dan

Dan the phlananx has always been good enough to do the mortars and things like that. It is too big to be transported on non ship platoforms I would imagine. When they were testing it they fired 5 inch shells at it with an offset to miss it but close enough for the system to engage. it would put a couple of rounds in the 5 inch as it went over. The system was initially designed with the ability to be used on suicide boats. and small craft. The Kingdom of saudi arabia purchased serial number 2-16 if I remember correctly. Not sure I am absolutely correct but it was close to those numbers. The system had a manual mode where it was connected to a TDT (target designation transmitter or for you army types a pedestal with binoculars and a trigger and linked to the system by servoes) The US navy did not have that mode hooked up. An admiral somewhere in the system for design did not like the idea of his best chance at being saved from a missile busy engaging a row boat when he needed it for missiles.



I was an FTM2 in the navy and worked on AN/SPG- 55 radars. After I got out of college I went to work for Sperry Rand Corporation ( company that built the AN/SPG -55) We had the combat systems contract for the Saudi Ship Building program and since my boss liked me out of sight as much as possible he loaned me out to work on Phalanx. A few years after that program ended. I got a very lucrative offer to go to saudi arabia for another company and maintain the phalanx in kindgom. I lived there for 4 years working on it. Then moved back to Arkansas and bought a farm.

 

[Rara Avis]

Maybe I should post up a video of me shooting off my tractor, of course with the ROPS up and safety belt on, then put it in the safety section. That's a great idea. hmmmm.

Podunk

Just make sure you are not HUNTING from that tractor in the video or a local Division of Wildlife officer will visit you...

But on the other hand, the Tractor Safety Police will give you a pass...

 

[Podunkadunk]

v I think that the main reason why you have to secure all radars when working with unlinked ammo in the phalanx is because it is electrically fired ammunition. The worry is that a pulse from a radar might induce enough current to set it off.


If you played with that system on a carrier you must know an awful lot about corrosion control. I went to the General Dynamics factory for 10 weeks to train on the system. While I was there we were wondering around in the factory and ran accross a sytem that had been pulled off of a carrier and brought back for study. It was located under the flight deck and whenever they washed down the flight deck it got covered in salt water. (at least that is what they told us) The system had been on the carrier for only a year. I can safely say it was the worst corroded thing I have ever seen. The electronic plugs on the back of the mount were actually eaten over 50 per cent away from corrosion and the barrels were unbelievable. We saw some of the ideas they were trying to combat the corrosion issue.


Did you just work on the gun or the whole system. I spent a month one time troubleshooting a problem with the tracking system failing its operability test. I checked everything over and over and the only thing I could find was that when you injected a signal into the waveguide and measured the outputs of the hybrid ring they were ten db lower than they were supposed to be. (that was after we finally got the test equipment guys to fix our spectrum analyzer so that it accurately measured at that frequency. ) we knew it could not be the hybrid ring because that is just square tubing basically. I had several conversations with the people at GD about the problem and got into one big arguement with one of the guys talking. I found out later that he was the engineer that had designed the antenna system. Finally I convinced them it was in the antenna and we sent it back to GD to be fixed. They found stuff growing in the waveguide. Evidently the crew had cracked the radome and then went to supply on their own and got a new one without telling anyone. I miss working on that system. It was always broke so you always had a challenge. While I was in school I made the statement that it was very easy to defeat that sytem. That got a lot of attention so they asked me how. I told them it was easy you outfitted a plane with a missile and then made a run on the ship. You fired your missile and one of two things happened either the missile hit the ship and sank it or the system worked and knocked the missile out of the air. If the sytem worked and knocked the missile out of the air then you waited 24 hours and came back the next day and fired a missile and sank the ship, because everyone knew that the system never worked for 24 hours straight. I thought that was hilariously funny. Unfortueatly it was a bit too close to the truth and our instructor did not see the humor. After a couple of years of development they got the bugs worked out so we saw some reliability. But those first couple of years it was nothing to work 80 plus hours a week on it.

You're right about the RADAR radhaz and the electrically primed cartridges. The feed chute shields the primer from radhaz normally, but when you have to break the chute to fix something, rounds can be exposed. (For all the others who don't understand).

I worked on the gun system in the A-7E Corsair II. Never messed with the Phalanx system, but did see those guys working it a lot. It had the reputation in the 80's of not being so sound. We used to joke with the ship guys that we'd come and fix it for them, if they'd let us shoot it. Never dealt with any of the fire control system. Even in the squadron level, we had avionic technicians that did that. I was a gun system only guy.

Podunk

 

[Podunkadunk]

Podunk, by the way.. just noticed your tag line.. totally agree bud!

soundguy

Not to be political, but after Tuesday, it may be more applicable than ever

In the last week, I ordered 1500 rounds of 5.56 and 1000 rounds of 7.62. Both are back ordered, because of the election, but at least I locked in at the lower prices. I've been told by dealers that they speculate ammo prices will go up by 20% after Tuesday alone. I hope they are wrong.

Podunk

 

[Podunkadunk]

Just make sure you are not HUNTING from that tractor in the video or a local Division of Wildlife officer will visit you...

But on the other hand, the Tractor Safety Police will give you a pass...

Yeah, but I'd probably blow it with not having proper eye protection on, or steel toed boots, or long sleeves or something.

Wow, just noticed this was my 1000th post. I'm a veteran now.

Podunk

 

[KML]

[/QUOTE] because everyone knew that the system never worked for 24 hours straight. [/QUOTE]

LOL!


CIWS - Pronounced "see-wiz"

Definition - "Sir, it won't shoot"

You guys sure are bringing back old memories! (nightmares?). Been playing this game for 16 years (I'm still active duty), though I was never a CIWS tech (MK92) I've had many in my work centers and they were always a challenge. They have gotten much better through the years though.

The surface target engage mode you talked about is currently in use by Isreal and is being revisited with the change in threat profile for us now. Seeing as we've had more loss by small craft attacks than anti-ship missles in the last decade, it's starting to look like a good idea again!

You mentioned arguing with the GD guys about the waveguide. Reminded me of when we had a RADAR issue that the ISEA was "sure" couldn't be what we said it was and wouldn't release the parts we wanted. Our CO said "fine, meet us in Turkey on such and such a date and you can trouble shoot it"...We had the parts the next week

 

[Podunkadunk]

KML,
Thanks for your service!!!! Hang in there, 4 more years to go until you get a pension. I really appreciate your sacrifice. Keep up the good work and your head on a swivel.

Podunk

 

[gemini5362]

because everyone knew that the system never worked for 24 hours straight. [/QUOTE]

LOL!


CIWS - Pronounced "see-wiz"

Definition - "Sir, it won't shoot"

You guys sure are bringing back old memories! (nightmares?). Been playing this game for 16 years (I'm still active duty), though I was never a CIWS tech (MK92) I've had many in my work centers and they were always a challenge. They have gotten much better through the years though.

The surface target engage mode you talked about is currently in use by Isreal and is being revisited with the change in threat profile for us now. Seeing as we've had more loss by small craft attacks than anti-ship missles in the last decade, it's starting to look like a good idea again!

You mentioned arguing with the GD guys about the waveguide. Reminded me of when we had a RADAR issue that the ISEA was "sure" couldn't be what we said it was and wouldn't release the parts we wanted. Our CO said "fine, meet us in Turkey on such and such a date and you can trouble shoot it"...We had the parts the next week[/QUOTE]


KML my company that I worked for built the MK 92 (but you probably know that) I used to work with the 92 techs a lot. The Saudi PGG class of ships have the Mk 92 system installed on them.


It will be interesting to see how they implement the the surface mode in CIWS. If they do it from a TDT it might be useless. I dont know how much things have been changed over the last 20 years (that looks really bad in print) Speaking from personal experience (my hand on the trigger type experience) It did not work well with a TDT. The TDT was not tied in to the gyro it was just a straight servo link. We were out on a fireing run with (3) 55 gallon drums lashed together. They make a pretty good sized target. I watched the crew try three times to hit the target and miss. I offered to show them how to hit it. You would think that with 50 rounds a second fireing rate that those three drums would be perforated. I tried three times to hit them and the crew tried a few more. No one ever came close to the drums. Trying to anticipate the ships roll is nearly impossible with the system. If they tie the system through the gyro so that ships motion is taken out of the picture should be a lot more effective.


This thread has gotten me thinking so I looked for job opportunities for CIWS techs. There were actually quite a few. One company was looking for someone for 100 per cent travel with a lot of it outside of conus and most in southeast asia. My wife vetoed that idea pretty quickly. So I guess I will be staying in arkansas and working towards retireing sometime between june of next year and however long after that I decide to work.