will it take off?

[RayH]

I keep trying to find ways to explain that the plane will fly but its mostly been covered.
I think everyone agrees that if the plane moves forward it will have lift and eventually take off. If anyone doesnt get that concept they are beyond help on the rest of this.
I think everyone gets that the wheels do not push it forward, the prop pulls the plane.
I think the problem is trying to convince people that the prop is going to pull the plane no matter what the conveyor is doing. As long as the prop is pulling the plane, its moving forward therefore creating lift. How do you convince people that the prop doesnt stop pulling air just because the wheels are spinning and the speed they are spinning doesnt effect how much air the prop pulls through it..

 

[Duke4AZ]

Please, put this thread out of its misery. The statement is, ". . . as the plane moves . . . " meaning that the plane has forward motion. That motion is a result of thrust due to the propeller, the turbofan or the turbotjet, NOT THE LANDING GEAR. That statememt alone means that the plane is not standing still. As such there is air flowing over the wings. Now, since there is no statement that says there is any abnormal influence on a plane being propelled by its thrust system the assumption is that it is able to reach a "forward motion" capable of establishing the lift necessary to get the thing off the goofy conver belt that happens to be running the landing gear at twice the air speed . . . assuming there is absolutely no wind in either the head or tail direction. As such the plane is going to take off. If anyone has any questions on that, just read Jeff's from NY or Bill the Marine's explaination. Both are dead on and are absolutely correct.

Please, either add something new to this thread about how to get a tractor to fly or just let it die the old age death of a perfectly enjoyable forum discussion that has run its course.

Duke
Aerospace Engineer / Grading Equipment Owner/Operator Wannabee

Oh, and the balls will stop because the coefficient of resititution is less than 1.0 and efficiency due to alignement with a only a very tiny affect due to air resistance.

 

[MossRoad]

Nope, the wheels can't turn faster than the conveyor because the conveyor kicks into turbo boost overdrive and keeps up.

And the tires are made of a super non skid resistant high performance guaranteed to have 100% traction Firestone 500 Finger Plus and made especially for model airplanes on a super responsive magical conveyor belt

Oh. Well, then. I didn't know they had THOSE tires. (creeps away sheepishly)

 

[MossRoad]

MossRoad, You seemed to be stuck on the conveyor matching the speed of the wheels when the scenario states that the conveyor matches the speed of the plane. Splain that one.

O.K. I'll try.

1. Put airplane on a conveyor.
2. If it goes backwards it is moving slower than the conveyor, yes?
3. If it stays in the same place it is going the same speed as the conveyor, yes?
4. If it moves forwards it is going faster than the conveyor, yes?

Therefore, if it moves faster than the speed of the conveyor it did not adhere to the rules set by the original problem, did it? No.

Now everyone say, "Thanks Mr. Obvious!"

Hehehehehehee

 

[MossRoad]

I keep trying to find ways to explain that the plane will fly but its mostly been covered.
I think everyone agrees that if the plane moves forward it will have lift and eventually take off. If anyone doesnt get that concept they are beyond help on the rest of this.
I think everyone gets that the wheels do not push it forward, the prop pulls the plane.
I think the problem is trying to convince people that the prop is going to pull the plane no matter what the conveyor is doing. As long as the prop is pulling the plane, its moving forward therefore creating lift. How do you convince people that the prop doesnt stop pulling air just because the wheels are spinning and the speed they are spinning doesnt effect how much air the prop pulls through it..

I think everyone agrees with you that IF the plane moves forward it will have lift and eventually take off.

What a lot of folks in the no fly camp are thinking is the plane won't ever get to move forward in the first place because of the rules of the conveyor belt being it has to match the speed of the plane, not go slower than the plane. It has to go slower than the plane in order for the plane to move forward. Those are the laws of nature, too.

 

[shaley]

So is it correct to say that if there is any friction in the wheels or the A/C has skids rather than wheels this conveyor will be able to hold the plane back until the thrust force overcomes the rearward drag force.

 

[NewToy]

I think everyone agrees with you that IF the plane moves forward it will have lift and eventually take off.

What a lot of folks in the no fly camp are thinking is the plane won't ever get to move forward in the first place because of the rules of the conveyor belt being it has to match the speed of the plane, not go slower than the plane. It has to go slower than the plane in order for the plane to move forward. Those are the laws of nature, too.

If the conveyor is matching the speed of the plane, by default the plane must be moving forward. If the plane moves forward it flies. The wheels of the plane are spinning 2x the speed of the plane at liftoff. SO SIMPLE!

 

[rback33]

Wow... did you guys do ANYTHING over the weekend? LMAO I thought there would be a few replies, but not several PAGES of replies... Has this thread set any records yet? If not how much further to go? Quite frankly the subject has begun to make my head hurt.

 

[MossRoad]

If the conveyor is matching the speed of the plane, by default the plane must be moving forward. If the plane moves forward it flies. The wheels of the plane are spinning 2x the speed of the plane at liftoff. SO SIMPLE!

Yes, it is simple. If something is moving forward on a conveyor running in the opposite direction it must be going faster than the conveyor, not the same speed as the conveyor.

 

[MossRoad]

Wow... did you guys do ANYTHING over the weekend? LMAO I thought there would be a few replies, but not several PAGES of replies... Has this thread set any records yet? If not how much further to go? Quite frankly the subject has begun to make my head hurt.

Yes. I asked my wife, who works with numbers her whole life, to develop an algorithym to explain if this could work or not. She said that no matter how fast that propeller turned, whether the conveyor matched the speed from a dead standstill or from a rolling start, no matter what the airspeed, groundspeed or anything, the basement won't clean itself.