Windows 11

[Oaktree]

I cannot understand why someone would think that Linux is too clunky. It's got a wonderful choice of GUI interfaces, some are absolutely beautiful, most are much easier to understand and use than the latest Windows interfaces. All have easily configurable settings via a simple GUI. I use XFCE for my Desktop Xfce Desktop Environment Most users use a Gnome or KDE desktop. But some users actually do not like choice.

I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about with "not liking choice". Every time I've played with Linux it was about as modern looking as Windows 95. Not that I necessarily agree with MS's constant tweaking with the GUI, but it's 2021...who wants to use a computer that still looks and acts like one did 25 years ago?

I cannot see how it can be described as obtuse. It's an operating system. If you mean that you don't understand it - well that's the same as Windows internals - you don't need to understand that to use it. Internally though Linux is a far better OS than Windows as it performs far better - runs faster, uses less CPU and memory, crashes rarely (usually only from hardware failure or a badly written, 3rd party, kernel driver).

Well, let me phrase it a bit differently...it's not very intuitive. Example: in Windows if you want to install a program, you double-click on the install file and it walks you thru the setup. In Linux that doesn't work, you need to go thru some gyrations to get a new program to install, nothing that's obvious to the uninitiated. WAAY too many things you need to use command line instructions to do, again nothing even remotely intuitive. During the several times I've tried to learn Linux, I spent way too much time Googling how to do this or that...if you're lucky you'll find some Linux forum where someone will have posted a long list of commands (without explaining what any of them mean of course). And it seems most of the forum members are quite condescending toward newbies asking "stupid questions". Who needs it?

Then there's that matter that many programs that have no Linux equivalents. I understand that there are emulators, but if I need to do that, why not just use Windows in the first place.

Linux is used as the basis for most smart phones, Android tablets, all of the top 500 super computers, most IoT gadgets, TVs and fridges and most servers around the world. But the average users Desktop is still the domain of an old, clunky, poorly performing OS called Windows. That's what you can achieve if you have good marketing, a method of lock-in, use illegal tactics, and have customers who don't know what better options are available.

Apples and oranges. IoT gadgets don't require you to run the OS, they just have whatever software they require auto-run. Most places that use servers also have IT staffs who presumably make the big bucks for knowing how they work, yet still we see a lot of servers getting hacked these days.

I get it, you like Linux. Good for you. But if it was easy to use, why aren't more people using it? Answer: most users aren't computer science majors.

 

[MikeFarm]

All too easy to install linux in a dual boot config. The GUI/interface is just the look, the part Windows keeps changing!

btw, Mac OS is built on a linux core and MS uses Unix on their own servers.

Not quite right. It does not use a Linux kernel. It uses kernel bits from a BSD derivative and the UNIX structure based on BSD.

 

[MikeFarm]

I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about with "not liking choice". Every time I've played with Linux it was about as modern looking as Windows 95. Not that I necessarily agree with MS's constant tweaking with the GUI, but it's 2021...who wants to use a computer that still looks and acts like one did 25 years ago?

Well, let me phrase it a bit differently...it's not very intuitive. Example: in Windows if you want to install a program, you double-click on the install file and it walks you thru the setup. In Linux that doesn't work, you need to go thru some gyrations to get a new program to install, nothing that's obvious to the uninitiated. WAAY too many things you need to use command line instructions to do, again nothing even remotely intuitive. During the several times I've tried to learn Linux, I spent way too much time Googling how to do this or that...if you're lucky you'll find some Linux forum where someone will have posted a long list of commands (without explaining what any of them mean of course). And it seems most of the forum members are quite condescending toward newbies asking "stupid questions". Who needs it?

Then there's that matter that many programs that have no Linux equivalents. I understand that there are emulators, but if I need to do that, why not just use Windows in the first place.

Apples and oranges. IoT gadgets don't require you to run the OS, they just have whatever software they require auto-run. Most places that use servers also have IT staffs who presumably make the big bucks for knowing how they work, yet still we see a lot of servers getting hacked these days.

I get it, you like Linux. Good for you. But if it was easy to use, why aren't more people using it? Answer: most users aren't computer science majors.

> still looks and acts like one did 25 years ago?
All modern GUI interfaces do have features 25 years old. WIMP = windows, icons, mice and pointers. Linux desktops also have modern features like configurable and live backgrounds, taskbars, live notification panel apps like weather. Same as OSX and Windows.

> many programs that have no Linux equivalents.
Correct. The persons or companies choose not to release on that platform. For me I have everything I need available. Far more in fact than on Windows or OSX. I'm lucky

> you double-click on the install file and it walks you thru the setup. In Linux that doesn't work,
> you need to go thru some gyrations to get a new program to install,
In mine I can just open the software manager application, search for what I want and double click to install it. Done. It even can uninstall it fully - Windows has only just got a complete package manager! I still prefer the command line as its faster and I'm used to it.

> yet still we see a lot of servers getting hacked these days.
Rare that its the OS if its Linux or UNIX. By far and away its the application is badly written or users neglecting configuration (Like AWS S3 buckets). There are many many ****ty programmers or companies that don't want the extra cost to hire an experienced and competent programming team.

> But if it was easy to use, why aren't more people using it?
It is as easy to use as Windows or OSX. BUT all interfaces need training. Shove a computer illiterate person in front of a PC and many won't get very far That's why there are so many training courses for users. Put a Windows only person in front of OSX and they will be a bit lost! Vice versa. And installing Windows or Linux or OSX can be problematic with unformatted disks as it will have to ask questions that most users will have problems with.
Most users use Windows and OSX as it comes pre-installed plus the other reasons I have mentioned before.

It's like tractors. Why would anyone buy a John Deere? We all know they will be locked in and pay through the nose

 

[sawyerlouis602]

I have not tested windows 11 either, and most likely I will install it on my PC after fixing all the bugs that usually exist initially in the new OS. I had such a story with Windows 10 - I installed it as soon as it appeared, and as a result, it was completely unusable for working at first. I work in one of the web development services and we are often faced with a request to write applications and sites that will be implemented on Windows 11. Good or bad - I can't say with certainty

 

[California]

Last year I tried to migrate from Windows to Linux. I spent 1 month fighting the complexities then out of frustration called it quits and stayed with Windows. Will try the migration again if MS starts charging a Windows subscription fee.

My experience exactly except 25 ? years ago. I took several days vacation around Christmas and bought a huge, best recommended $20 Linux For Beginners book, which included a setup CD. Hours and hours and hours including many downloads at 14.4k and it never would boot. Finally after a week researching everywhere online I found a post that described the problem. That CD had something written wrong that was never going to work unless Linux was already installed, and all the downloads from the publisher repeated the same problem. Everyone who had reviewed that beginner's book and CD with glowing praise hadn't noticed that bug. The End.

That was a repeat of trying IBM's OS2. Gorgeous. But no driver existed anywhere for a modem faster than 9600 and mine was 14.4. Back to Dos and Windows.

Mac? Similar. Our office bought them for the managers only. "California, you're the PC guru here. Teach us how to use them. No we won't let you buy a book or go to any training. The salesman told us you don't need training to use one. So you teach us". First thing I learned was the diskette-remove button turned off the Mac. I looked stupid blundering around making similar mistakes. After that I was rarely asked to look at the managers Macs. When I did I found user errors like docs saved in the hidden system folder or named LPT1, so they seemed to have disappeared. And I never have touched one since. Never had need for the publishing or fine-art aspects where I'm told they are better. I think many Macs in home use are $2.5k Facebook machines, no?

I think I'll stay with Win7 for a few more years.

 

[arto98607]

..............snip.................
Will try the migration again if MS starts charging a Windows subscription fee.

Dislike very much their (365 whatever it's called) annual subscription fee and that is why I will keep using MS Office 2010 as long as it works fine!

 

[Racenut]

I went ahead and installed Windows 11 on my work laptop. I work in IT, so someone needs to be the guinea pig So far, it installed without any issues and I've been using it for a few days. Interface changes if anything are more intuitive than Windows 10 was. And not as drastic as the failure that was Windows 8. Otherwise, everything so far is running just as it was before. But my laptop is fairly new, we'll see what happens as older PC's get it.

 

[newbury]

Interesting thread - My entry into computers was when IBM was transitioning from mag core memory. Looked like tennis rackets being strung by ladies. I was cutting chips when they first put 3 transistors on a production chip about 1972.
My first Linux distro was 0.95 in about 1993 on something like 11 floppies, and I have been running Linux ever since, off and on.
Just about a month ago I "rejuvenated" a dead laptop with an Ubuntu stick.
So to me Linux is relatively easy IF you stick with one distribution.
But the world went to that rip off artist Bill Gates.

Pray tell, why do they want to make Windows "more Mac like"? Mac has what, a 7% market share while Windows has a market share in the 80s.
If I wanted a Mac I'd buy one.

Interesting. I'll have to give it a shot.

From my experience Macs work. But they were a pain to program and had to adhere to stringent Apple rules.

I always keep my backup devices disconnected from power or data sources except when I'm actually using them. It's not just being hacked that I'm concerned about, but also power surges and malfunction of the host computers that might destroy the data or device. Rather unlikely, I know, but what's the point of depending on a vulnerable backup device or cloud?

And, to borrow a saying, One is None, Two is One. That way, when one backup source fails due to physical or logical means (it will), you still have the other to copy over to your replacement device.

Most of my career was in IT and user computer support, and losing data was just about the worse thing that can happen. And it's always the IT person's fault, regardless. Boy, was I shocked when I found my predecessor's backups weren't backing much up .

As an aside, for Windows or DOS users, consider using Robocopy to back up your data. It's a native Windows / DOS application that can be scripted (batch file) to update your files on a backup device, in regular file format rather than relying on any particular application, and it costs no extra. If you want to encrypt the backup, set the backup uf for encryption before copying data to it. Makes it easy to access your data on the backup device. The downside is you need to parse all the different command switches to get it to do what you want it to do. The help files for it are detailed and easily available. Once you get it to do what you want, script it and it's easy street after that. Just be real sure not to accidentally erase your original files by using the wrong switches. The likely way that would happen is using the wrong switches with the command, but always test using expendable sources first, no matter what way you back things up. If you have only one copy, be very careful until you have a tested backup of it!

Backups should be treated like chair legs, you need at least three to be safe.

I went ahead and installed Windows 11 on my work laptop. I work in IT, so someone needs to be the guinea pig So far, it installed without any issues and I've been using it for a few days. Interface changes if anything are more intuitive than Windows 10 was. And not as drastic as the failure that was Windows 8. Otherwise, everything so far is running just as it was before. But my laptop is fairly new, we'll see what happens as older PC's get it.

Can you run different browsers with ease?

One of the things I see being talked about is that W11 will be able to run Android apps.

 

[kenmbz]

Geez, core memory, that brings back some interesting times.
I think I still have a 128 bit card somewhere.
I ran PDP, Vax, IBM desktops, sun, and most linux distros.
While I like Linux, my apps for work and play are on Windows.

I can already run some android apps remotely on Win10 using the "your phone" app.

My spare work laptop is too old to run win11, but will need for work soon, so time to get another new, old laptop to play around.

The latest Mac books finally have an HDMI port, but cost 2x a win pc.
I gave up my Mac, it annoyed me and I don't use high end adobe products like some of my co-workers.

 

[newbury]

<snip>
I ran PDP, Vax, IBM desktops, sun, and most linux distros.
<snip>

Thread hijack -
Man that takes me back. Our Army research lab, of about 300 people, was all DEC- a couple of PDP-11 (70?) and DEC Rainbows to the secretaries for word processing.
I had been carrying in my personal Commodore 64 (w/ cassette) to get things done - Reports, guides, etc.
SOMEHOW about 1985 or 1986 I talked my supervisor into letting me buy a DEC Pro 350, and then a 10MB (not GB!) hard drive. The lab had a strict NO IBM only DEC policy.
I cranked out reports with printed graphics, pie charts, and became a computer guru in the lab.
It took Linux/Unix and a few years to break the labs NO IBM policy. We fielded systems costing 10 times as much for the hardware because of the DEC only policy.

 

[Oaktree]

Thread hijack -
Man that takes me back. Our Army research lab, of about 300 people, was all DEC- a couple of PDP-11 (70?)

I worked with DEC PDPs (mostly 8's & 11s) in the early-mid 70s. ISTR that with the expanded memory option the 8's could access a whopping 28k (yes, k) of RAM. No bloatware in those days!!
These were interfaced with drum memory units...about the size of a washing machine and the large-capacity unit held an amazing 8M. At the time we figured no one would ever fill that up.
How things have changed.

 

[JasperFrank]

Microsoft, contrary to popular belief, is not, and has never been, a direct creator of secure OS software. They have never... repeat, never, created an operating system in house. They are admitting this with the Win11 roll out. They are doing what they have always done, which is to out source security to some other party. The requirements of Win 11 are a direct reflection of this. They want TPM 2 - defined by TCG, Trusted Computing Group, , and UFEI, Unified Extensible Firmware Interface boot- which Intel created. Neither of these were invented by Microsoft. Yet Microsoft needs these cause, they have no clue of the securty of their own operating system that will be based on Remote Access -your "Account," for the all important call home, and record, and sell, all you have done with out some third party back door, hack, directly attributiable to MS. Thus, you have to update your machine, at a hardware level in some way, to run their newest offering.
BSD UNIX OSX Apple and Linux have much stronger kernels of when an OS can be inserted with a nasty. These will notify you, and at least at Admin Level, ask of an authority to do so. You would have to be rather stupid to allow, say, a crypto-ransom attack, on a Linux or an Apple System. It can't do that as a back door.

Yet, you can run most MS soft using WINE. Which is not an emulator.

React-OS is a dead project. Simply because its not only attempting to be 100% code complient with Microsoft, that also means they would have to fix all the issues of the old code of the NT Kernal. This would be like rewriting the whole thing, when it would be much easier to put a Windows like shell on top of an already secure core.
Linux has made huge jumps in the ease of generic open drivers and such, in the last few years.
If you buy something that is MS specific, its your fault buying into the monopoly.


In 2024, all of our personal machines, will be running some form of Linux. Wife HAS to USE Apple OSX for professional work right now as that is the issued computer platform that the University Owns... they own her computer. But that is changing also. And there are pains when when they roll out a 64 bit only upgrade, with out sending out the memo that your programs might just have 32 bit old stuff, as supporting programs. Woops?

For me Win 7 Pro goes directly to the Zorin Linux Distro, even if I have to buy into the Pro version with support. And if a device doesn't support it, I'll get one that does.

There is really nothing that Libra or Open Office can't do that only MS software suits can do. I will admit that the open source community messed up on Power Point and didn't do a good clone.

And for some reason we have all forgotten RTF formats, that any one can read with picts and stuff.

WE CONTROL the platforms with our buying decisions. Its not the other way around.

And, I would not have any faith in any thing PC World had to say about anything.

 

[Racenut]

Can you run different browsers with ease?

One of the things I see being talked about is that W11 will be able to run Android apps.

I use Firefox and Chrome all day. I tend to only use MS browser for MS sites. So far, I've not run into any issues that I wasn't running into before LOL. Remember when they said web apps would allow us to be system agnostic as they would all run in any browser? Well I still have apps that prefer to run in one or the other and some that wont run at all in anything but whatever browser they were made for. But that's not a Windows 11 thing, it's just bad app development.

I'll have to look into Android app compatibility. That might be interesting as I do use Android mobile and I'm sitting here typing this on my Chromebook

 

[MAX-24-Dean]

Windows 11?? Hope the roll out is not another Windows 8 scenario!!!

Used windows for business use to run AutoCad and Revit sofware (now retired).
For personal use I run Linux and Apple/Mac for security reasons.

 

[GeneV]

I got it now on one of my computers, no problems to report. Cad program works fine, my ancient 2008 quickbooks pro works fine, pdf reader works fine, it all works fine with win11.

 

[jyoutz]

They just told us it was the final version so we would buy it. Joke's on us.

Buy it? I upgraded from 8 to 10 for free.

 

[the old grind]

I upgraded from W7 to W10 for free a fee months ago and the GUI is another puzzle as always. I now keep Task Manager, Control Panel. and File Explorer open on the task bar because otherwise it's too much work to find them. If I wantd to give up wordss for symbols I'd try to learn Chinese.

 

[lman]

I upgraded from W7 to W10 for free a fee months ago and the GUI is another puzzle as always. I now keep Task Manager, Control Panel. and File Explorer open on the task bar because otherwise it's too much work to find them. If I wantd to give up wordss for symbols I'd try to learn Chinese.

Was there anything there about Windows 11?

 

[the old grind]

Don't know if 11 was even rumored when I stumbled onto the 'upgrade'. (to 10 from 7/8 only vs from Vista or XP)

MS promises a better GUI with 11 but IMO changes are always more intimidating than user friendly.

 

[PuffyC]

Microsoft, contrary to popular belief, is not, and has never been, a direct creator of secure OS software. They have never... repeat, never, created an operating system in house. They are admitting this with the Win11 roll out. They are doing what they have always done, which is to out source security to some other party. The requirements of Win 11 are a direct reflection of this. They want TPM 2 - defined by TCG, Trusted Computing Group, , and UFEI, Unified Extensible Firmware Interface boot- which Intel created. Neither of these were invented by Microsoft. Yet Microsoft needs these cause, they have no clue of the securty of their own operating system that will be based on Remote Access -your "Account," for the all important call home, and record, and sell, all you have done with out some third party back door, hack, directly attributiable to MS. Thus, you have to update your machine, at a hardware level in some way, to run their newest offering.

Oh my. I'll just say that while there are bits of truth sprinkled here and there, conceptually you've been grossly misinformed. But I know this is a religious debate within the IT crowd so don't mind me.

In 2024, all of our personal machines, will be running some form of Linux.

That's awesome, but people have been running out the Linux Defense for decades yet here we are. If Linux works for you then great, you should definitely use it, but for anyone thinking it's a viable alternative for the mainstream masses that's just crazy talk (not aimed at you, just others in general). Soon advances in computing will make much of the talk of desktop OSs largely irrelevant anyway.

And, I would not have any faith in any thing PC World had to say about anything.

Won't argue that one.