Woodsplitter build #2

[6sunset6]

Here it is The Movie. I think the pressure spikes when the pump shifts and that is causing the early detent release of the auto valve. I have to have another set of eyes to find out.
Box Wedge Splitter.MOV - YouTube

There are advantages and disadvantages to the box wedge. I think generally I like it, even if I have to use a sledge hammer every once in a while to clear the box.

 

[Scooby074]

Bob, i have that same issue when the oil is cold. Occasionally it kicks at first contact. If i hold the lever however it wont kick. After the oil is warm, this issue never really happens.

I believe, like like yourself that its a pressure spike. I havent adjusted mine yet because it goes away after a bit. Your building a lot of pressure due to your box wedge. On mine i rarely go much over 1000-1500 PSi

There isnt much out there as far as i can see regarding instructions to adjust the valve. I'll be interested in seeing what you find.

You could call Prince's tech line. I talked to them when i was designing mine and they are excellent.

 

[6sunset6]

Jason, your comments have been invaluable, Thanks.
How warm is you oil? I ran for an hour and got to 80d F.

 

[Scooby074]

My tank is around 20 gal i believe and on an average it runs at 100-120F on a typical day after 2-3 hours.

As an iside, i just ran out to check the machine so i could give an accurate estimate of where the gauge reads and i noticed that half my oil is gone!!

And there is yellow snow under the pump!!!. Looks like a blown seal on the pump. Thankfully i put a valve on the pump inlet hose so i closed it to save whats left of the oil.. but this little setback cost me 10Gal of oil or about $75 and now i got to try and get warranty on my pump. Not a good day.

 

[6sunset6]

Bummer

 

[6sunset6]

Jason, Did you find the leak? Not a lot of hours on the pump. I have run 2 of them for years without a leak. Should be repairable if not under warranty.
I have attached the Halex 16gpm pump IPL ( Illustrated Parts List)
Good for reference.

 

[Scooby074]

Bob, thanks for the link.

From what ive seen in my quick look, it appears to be the shaft seal.

I havent started the splitter since ive found the leak. If its just weeping, i can probably get by for a bit by shutting the valve to keep the oil in the tank but if I start it and it really leaks a rebuild is in order.

I got to split a few cord soon.. hope i can get by with it as is for a bit. I bought the splitter 100 miles away and they have no more in stock.

 

[Scooby074]

I think your bad luck Bob :laughing:

split about 1 cord today. Was having some issues with the return valve kicking out even when warm. So i adjusted the detent to keep it in. Worked great..

so i figured i should tweek the forward detent (that was working fine) but kicking out at about 1200 lbs and not near the 2000 relief pressure. I mean, "hey, im paying for 2000 psi, i better use it"

Now i got it all screwed up and neither detent is working Was getting late in the day, so its going to have to wait for the next time im out there to fix my "improvements". Sometimes you just gotta know when to stop screwing around with it.

One thing i noticed is the sweetspot to get both valves cycling properly is VERY tight. 1/32-1/16 of a turn can totally change the performance of the valve.

You may not be aware, but the retract detent should be 300 PSi under relief, with the forward detent 200 psi under that. I found this out after i was screwing with it and got it all messed up. So the forward detent was pretty much set right before i messed with it.:mur:

Took a few pics of the adjustment location if you were unaware, and the leak. Dont call the EPA

Little Valdez

Oil on punp

Adjustment

 

[6sunset6]

Attached is the paperwork for that valve.
I have noticed that finicky adjustment. This is funny. The valve is rated 3000 psi max but the max detent is 2000 psi. Then the actual detent settings are below 2000. I guess they could be raised a bit . Oh I just figured it out, if you hold the handle manually you can reach the relief setting. I did read somewhere that someone set the detents higher and blew out the seals.

" but the retract detent should be 300 PSi under relief, with the forward detent 200 psi under that" under should be over
I think you have this a little confused or maybe it's me
Relief 2 200 psi higher than relief 1 and 300 psi below relief So if relief is at 2000 than detent 1 which is retract is 1500 and relief 2 is 1700. The net of this is that the ram will stop at a 1500 psi spike. As you said maybe when it heats up the spikes go away. I am still confused as to why it just stops and does not retract when spiked. I guess it's all in the detent springs and ports.

 

[6sunset6]

More observations
Hour meter is right on the money. Time goes by fast when splitting 10 hrs on it.
Need a debris skid for underneath it . I fill firewood skids so fast the forks are always on the tractor. Even though I have a skid steer front adapter it's a pain to shovel debris into the bucket. If I have a shallow skid with sides and a removable end door I can leave it under the splitter grate. Won't get it all but most. The move it and dump it with the forks. Oh yeah have to figure out how to not dump the skid at the same time.
Lets see what else. Filled all my firewood skids. Now that's a problem I have 40 rounds to go. Maybe 6 skids but I only have cover for 3 more . I guess loose in the wood shed. Bummer.
One more thing Cold oil does not like to go through the filter. Bypass is 25 psi When it runs for 15 min or so it looks like it is warm enough to go through the filter and at maybe 70d the back pressure is zero. After an hour and 45 min the tank was at 80d the filter was warmer than that and the motor was cooler than the filter.
Looks good to me except for lack of skids. I got to move this thing to its permanent home. I finally split all the rounds that were in the way of installing the outlet out there.

 

[Scooby074]

I split wood for about 3 hours today.

And i swear on almost every 3rd round i was screwing with that darn valve.

Some times it would split perfect then other times the return would stick on.

The way I understand it it is like this.

If relief is 2000, then the detent on the return spool should be 1700 or so. And the forward should kick out at 1500. The difference between the two is to prevent the reverse from kicking out when the forward kicks out at the end of the extension.

My problem is i can get it to work fine for several splits, then all of a sudden the return wont kick out after the cylinder retracts. Or the forward wont kick out at 1500 and climb up to almost relief. You never know which problem will arise, sometimes the forward works fine but not the reverse, sometimes its only the reverse or the forward. There is no rhyme or reason.

When its acting up the forward kickout is inconsistent too. Its behaving like there is either dirt or a burr on the detents or the spools. When the dirt is not in the way, it runs fine, when the dirt is there, the detents wont kick properly. When the valve doesnt kick, when i manually move it back to neutral, it feels like there is "something" stopping the detent ball from moving out of its groove smoothly.

Its hard to describe here in words, but im getting pretty ticked. I hope your not having the same issue. I may disassemble the valve to clean it not sure yet. Might call Prince too.

 

[6sunset6]

Exactly the same. Mine stops a lot mid to end of ram stroke and does not retract.
I think I noticed that one of the big splitter mfg ers does not use it anymore.
I wondered if it was safety or did not work as advertised.

A thought , try it with out a log in it. I am going to try that as well.
I think it is the spike from the 2 stage pump somehow.

 

[Scooby074]

I noticed a thread that timberwolf dropped the auto valve as well. I dont think that it was a quality issue, but a liability one.

Ive tried mine both with and without a log and noticed no difference in performance. Funny thing is that it worked perfect up till just the other day.

I went to the place where i bought my valve and pump today. They dropped the entire Prince line, not for quality reasons but price. The hydraulics specialist is going to call Prince and see what he can find out. He said that it sounds like im adjusting it properly. He's heard of both levers kicking out or one sticking on with that valve, but usually a easy adjustment increasing the "gap" between forward and reverse kick off pressures will fix it. He's not sure why mine behaving so erratically. He suspected maybe a burr or dirt as well. Im going to wait and see what he tells me after talking to prince.

He also ordered me a seal kit for my pump for free.

Hopefully ill have some info to share soon.

 

[6sunset6]

Nice to have a supportive dealer. Maybe the pump seal breaking down got caught in the valve detent poppet. It's in the flow path.
I am sure you know this but when you break everything down it has to be really clean going back together. There was also a note in the Haldex pump IPL that the sealing shims between the pump sections are specific to the pump tolerances. Color coded
They are probably all similar.

 

[6sunset6]

Last post with final pictures. Unless something blows up.
Splitter in its final home at the wood shed. I realized that if I have to weld on it I have to move it back to the shop. uh portable welder????
Power pack is inside , beam outside. The skid is 3 x 4 x 2 1/2 high about a 1/4 of a cord. That is all my loader can lift. Notice no bark on the splits. A full skid of 4 x 4 x 16 will fill the trash skid under neath. Some kindling slips through but the split wood is nice and clean. I have 8 skids filled like the one you see, all oak from 1 tree. I was thinking about a concrete pad but figured I would get sticker shock. I had the gravel around and put down some geotextile I also had around. It's a little harder to clean up on gravel than concrete but that is life. Lets see have to get my wife to move her peat moss bale, or rather tell me where she wants it. I decided to ignore the valve problem for now. Maybe it will fix itself or I will get used to it. I also have to put in some kind of fence rail so I don't spend any time under the crane boom. I don't worry about it coming down but I also don't like being under it on purpose.
I actually have 20ft from the splitter to where the end of the boom would be if it came down. Anybody ever taken one down by cutting the cable inside the cab where it comes off the spool? All the action would be out side then. I would really like to use an explosive cable cutter and be far away. Off topic sorry. Ok this was a great story and fun to build. Thanks everyone for comments and looking.
Bob

 

[Scooby074]

Nice looking shed. I think im going to do something like that this summer if time allows. It sure beats dealing with tarps all winter.

Good idea on the box under the splitter. I got a ton of splitter trash piled up under mine. Im going to have to wait till it thaws out and push it into a pile to burn. Your system seems easier to keep clean.

 

[6sunset6]

About the trash box. The chains hook on the back of the fork attachment and the front door lifts out. So other than getting on and off the tractor a couple of times I can dump the box with the forks.
The shed was supposed to be my wife's garden shed but she discovered she hates mice. Oh Well. I have to finish the siding and stain it. Been ummm 18 years. Maybe next week.

 

[GE222]

Hi Bob,

Thanks again for all of your excellent posts and pictures of the splitter and shed. Excellent job!!!:thumbsup:

 

[6sunset6]

I can't believe I did this. Splitting season is coming. I walked by the splitter and just for hahas turned it on. Ran.
Good Then I looked at the hour meter 3650 Holy $$%^&. Long story short I tied the hour meter across the line before the switch . Since it was plugged in it just kept racking up hours. I decided to try and remember to un plug it, but as I type this I know I will forget so I think I will rewire.

Jason Did you ever get your pump and valve straightened out?

 

[Scooby074]

Hi bob... yes I agree splitter season is here!!. Hard to believe.

Yes, I got my splitter fixed.Although I had the parts for months, I just got around to installing the parts last week. Princess Auto went good for both the leaky pump and non-shifting valve. They sent me brand new ones!! Great service from PA as usual.

I hooked them up and so far the splitter is working fine (in the shop, haven't tested with wood). If I was to guess, Im going to say that something was in the valve, dirt? rubber grit from the new hoses? hard to say, but its behavior was indicative of something like that.

Im also increasing the output chute length (by 3') and going to elevate it a bit so i can move the split pieces further from the work area and hopefully be able to pile them a bit higher. Ill try and add some pics to my build thread when I finish.

The Subaru engine worked well. Started second pull, with last years gas!! Not quite as smooth in operation as a Honda, but real close.