Woodstove Insert Advice

[cmhyland]

After years of talking to my wife about putting a woodstove in the kitchen fireplace and getting shot down... she is getting very nervous about where the price of oil is going.

She said to me the other day we need to look at putting a stove in the kitchen fireplace.

On further discussion what she wants is an insert that is cast iron and with blower.

We currently have a Jotul Firelight stove in another part of the house... So we like the Jotul products... We also like the Vermont Castings....

Anyone have advice on Inserts? Anything specific to look for?

Thanks,
Chris

 

[rockshaft]

After years of talking to my wife about putting a woodstove in the kitchen fireplace and getting shot down... she is getting very nervous about where the price of oil is going.

She said to me the other day we need to look at putting a stove in the kitchen fireplace.

On further discussion what she wants is an insert that is cast iron and with blower.

We currently have a Jotul Firelight stove in another part of the house... So we like the Jotul products... We also like the Vermont Castings....

Anyone have advice on Inserts? Anything specific to look for?

Thanks,
Chris

The inserts I've had experience with were always low on heat output, but I'm sure a blower would help that issue. I've had much better results with free-standing stoves, sometimes routed into existing fireplaces (though I have none configured this way currently). I think this method is the most efficient way to capture heat (passively anyway). You might look at the offerings of Hearthstone. I have a couple of their stoves (one wood, one gas), the soapstone (or granite) is nice because its both attractive and radiates the heat well, even after the fire dies.

 

[charlz]

A woodstove with a blower in the kitchen... is this an older floorplan design or is it a more modern 'open' floorplan? If it is fairly closed off I would think you might get ran out of there in short order if running a woodstove with a blower.

I have a Quadrafire insert pellet stove and really like it. I have not used their woodstove products but wouldn't hesitate based on my experience with the pellet stove.

One thing to look for would be to make sure you have the correct sized fire-resistant flooring/hearth/whatever in front of the fireplace. My tiled area was apparently large enough for the fireplace but just barely for the pellet stove... no way it was big enough for a woodstove insert. I would have had to cut out wood flooring, trying to match the border, lay down more tile etc etc to get a woodstove insert in there.

 

[EE_Bota]

When I was looking last year, I was impressed with Pacific Energy's insert. It claimed to work well even without electricity, and the efficiency looked good. Ultimately, I bought a free standing soapstone stove off CL for $800, but if I hadn't, I would have bought the PE stove.

 

[cmhyland]

A woodstove with a blower in the kitchen... is this an older floorplan design or is it a more modern 'open' floorplan? If it is fairly closed off I would think you might get ran out of there in short order if running a woodstove with a blower.

I have a Quadrafire insert pellet stove and really like it. I have not used their woodstove products but wouldn't hesitate based on my experience with the pellet stove.

One thing to look for would be to make sure you have the correct sized flooring in front of the hearth. Mine was apparently large enough for the fireplace but just barely for the pellet stove... no way it was big enough for a woodstove insert. I would have had to cut out wood flooring, trying to match the border, lay down more tile etc etc to get a woodstove insert in there.

Thanks Charlz,

The house is near 300 yrs old... But the floor plan is somewhat open... The room is 18X24 with a 8 foot wide opening into the family room and 3 ft wide to the dining room...

There is about 20 inches of raised stone hearth in front of the fireplace... The inserts we're looking at are all flush to the face of the fireplace.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[lockhaven]

I am in the process of doing the same thing now. i did some reading on the subject and found a few potential problems. The inserts are known to cause chimney fires because the fireplace flu does not get hot enough and the creosote will build up because of the reduced heat going up the chimney.
Now putting a stand alone stove in requires some special construction.
It is recommended to use stainless steel pipe sized to the output of your stove. The pipe is placed inside the existing chimney it can be flexible or straight sections depending on the positioning of the stove and flue. The fire place damper has to be removed. If it is a steel insert fireplace like mine you will need to cut part of the fireplace away to get the pipe through. After the pipe is in place a steel plate is necessary to block off the top of the fire place where it angles into the flue with a tight fit around the stove pipe. a two piece plate makes this installation much more easy. Next the top of the chimney needs to be sealed off so water leaves and critters do not go down around the stove pipe. Finally from what I have read the height of the chimney is critical for stoves if not high enough the stove will not draw and smoke will build up in the stove which could cause a problem. As far as the type of stove except for the soap stone stoves which are by far the best but also the most costly and require manufacture installation. caste iron or steel plate have been shown that neither has an advantage as far as heating goes. I am sure that some will argue this because they have one or the other but independent studies prove otherwise it is just a personal preference, caste iron is usually nicer looking because of the shapes.

 

[super55]

A couple years ago we pulled our fireplace insert and replace with a heatnglo northstar woodstove insert and love it. This thing really cranks out the heat and looks good doing it too. This was one of the few that I could get the Mrs to approve and get her blessing on. We have an 1800 sq foot log home with a cathedral ceiling and it heats the whole house easily.

Things I like about it:
1. Has a blower that can be manually turned on or will come on automatically. The automatic thing from my experience almost seems to be a safety item because it really has to get warm before it kicks on.

2. Outside air or inside air intake for the firebox. I just use outside to keep to help keep the house pressurized.

3. I am capable of cleaning the chimney from the fireplace. It does require removing one catalytic tube and removing the fireboard and pad but after that I can run my bristle all the way to the top of the chimney and inspect afterwards.

My chimney is a double walled stainless with the air space and I have never had really any significant amount of creosote. It's a 30' stack and have never had any spot with buildup but I usually clean the fireplace twice during the season.

Things I don't like:
Can be difficult to get the smoke to go up the chimney when lighting on damp days. I'm sure part of this is due to the length of the stack.

The glass doors tend to soot over them. It's not too difficult to clean with fireplace glass cleaner or by getting a hot fire going and burning it off but it makes you realize why a lot of them don't have glass.

All in all we are extremely happy with our purchase. Our house stays warmer now in the winter and the saving from having to buy propane have already paid for itself. Heats extremely well and is aesthetically pleasing.

We almost bought a quadrafire but it wouldn't fit so we went with the Northstar instead.

 

[stub]

I have an old pre-EPA Ember Hearth insert with blower. It has a large firebox and throws a lot of heat but it will only hold a fire for about 5 hours max of usable heat. It was given to me and I put it in myself so I don't complain. I did not line the chimney, just made a block out plate to seal the pipe up through the damper. I burn pretty hot and my chimney is short so I don't get much creosote. If I were gonna buy a new one, I'd look into Blaze King catalytic inserts. Supposed to burn 24 hours on a load. Has some kind of automatic draft control that regulates the draft for maximum efficiency of the cat. This would be perfect for me, as I'm gone all day and with my stove I generally only build a fire in the evening and on weekends if I'm home I'll keep a fire going all day, which is 3 loads. Depends on how you want to use it. If you were home all the time, the long burn time might not be so important.

good sites for research:

Hearth.com Forums Home

http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/

 

[displacedPA]

I have an EPA rated insert made by Vermont Castings. The name of it is the merrimack. it is a great stove and has a huge fire box!! I have been heating with it for two seasons now and love it.
good luck in you decisons

 

[Hilltop Hillbilly]

Anyone have advice on Inserts? Anything specific to look for?

I've been using the Kozy Heat Z42 Wood Fireplace for a couple years now. It's essentially a zero clearance woodstove that sits in the wall, and like all modern units, uses outside air for combustion and energy efficiency.

It's centrally located in my house and *easily* heats my entire 3300 sq ft to a comfortable 70+ degrees in single digit outside temperatures. Having said that, I do have a new home with R50 in the attic, so that's certainly an important factor.

I'm very happy with the unit. Burns well, but you do need the variable speed blower running. Without the blowers (i.e. electricity), it wouldn't heat nearly as well.


HH

 

[cropdusting]

I have an EPA rated insert and put it into my "can" fireplace. It produces A LOT of heat even without the blower but I got the blower attachment as well. It is made by Avalon (I think is part of Travis Industries) If it is a good location in your house and it sounds like it is I would go for it. One thing that you will notice is with the high efficentcy models (like mine at 88%) it burns hot (it is easy to over fire on start up if you don't watch it and control your combustion air) and fast and depending on your existing fireplace dementions the fireboxes can be on the small side at around 18 inches length. But to demonstrate the efficentcy I can put my hand on and remove the spark arestor with a hot fire burning with litterally no smoke. I installed mine myself

I also have a multi-fuel pellet stove as primary heat. This and the gas forced air are the secondary/backup.

 

[EE_Bota]

I forgot to mention...I have a masonry fireplace, so I installed a insulated SS liner withing the existing masonry for my stove.

 

[lockhaven]

I forgot to mention...I have a masonry fireplace, so I installed a insulated SS liner withing the existing masonry for my stove.

Hey EE how difficult was getting the SS liner in? i will be doing that shortly

 

[EE_Bota]

Hey EE how difficult was getting the SS liner in? i will be doing that shortly

Harder than I wished....

First, I want to point out I used a flexible chimney liner...such as what these folks sell...
Rockford Chimney Supply Buy Chimney Liner Insulation Kits, Chimney Insulation


The big challenge (and in most installations, I gather) is getting it past the restriction that is typically found in the top of most fireplaces. I had the residuals of a cast iron damper system (to turn off a fireplace) that I had to cut out. Fortunately, once I cut a big chunk of that out...I didn't have to knock out any masonry.

Other than that, the biggest problem in my installation was bending the SS liner enough to hook to my freestanding stove.* Both me and my buddy did both of our houses...and hooking it to the stove was a bear for both of us....since it emerges from above straight, but must be turned quickly to connect to the stove. But all of this depends on the height and position of the stove.

He did not have enough room in his chimney for the SS liner and the liners insulation structure so he did not insulate. I did have enough room, so my liner is insulated on the outside. I feel it makes it draw a bit better, and also lowers, at least somewhat, accumulation of creosote.

*Imagine a typical old school fireplace...my stove sits on the hearth, not back in the fireplace box. At the top of the chimney, I pounded some to the mineral insulation very tightly around the pipe to try to eliminate any air leakage (since from that day forth, my fireplace will be forever open, that area must stop air, and I depend on the airtightness of the stove itself to seal the pipe, if you know what I mean.)

 

[MarkV]

I would suggest you check the noise level of the blower unit when buying. Our place came with a "Buck Stove" insert which works OK but the blower is so load we almost never use it.

MarkV

 

[Natureboy]

I purchased an Avalon Ranier with blower insert 8 years ago, professionally installed with a stainless chimney insert. Heats my 1400 sq. ft. house very well. Clean the chimney once a year after heating season, only end up with about half a bucket of chimney grime from a 12' chimney.

 

[EE_Bota]

I installed my own because I was in a hurry. A professional installation is a good idea because it can square many things with an insurer...and a wood stove is a particularly difficult chunk of heaviness to move around.